Political Talk Forum

[JHDK]

In this case it's whites screwing up their own rewards system. No rational person hears those chants and sees those fights today and thinks that's a normal or good thing to be doing. Really none of them should be there. The OG protesters or the counter protesters. Big waste of time and energy for everyone.

It's a shitty situation cause I want to consider myself nationalist and sometimes even alt right. But my definitions are a lot different than what both all those whiteys making fools of themselves in VA and pretty much all media/liberal onlookers think. Putting "white" in front of nationalist ruins it. I'm not in favor of white Americans being put 1st in all political dealings, I'm in favor of all legal American citizens being put 1st. And to me alt right is a group of conservative leaning people who get a kick out of trolling people with different opinions for the sole reason of getting under their skin. I think that's funny.

 

[scotchandcigar]

Obama won't be a Democratic poster face...

Haha! See what they did there? Can't blame them really. "Poster face" is not a term. Now "poster boy" is a term but it wouldn't be the best of ideas to go around calling any black man a boy and especially not a POTUS. I just thought it was a cute re-wording.

The term is "poster child". They're not going to use that term on a 56 year old President. It's got nothing to do with race.

 

[JHDK]

The term is "poster child". They're not going to use that term on a 56 year old President. It's got nothing to do with race.

Huh, good call. My first thought for that term is poster boy, but I see poster child is also a term. What I do know is that when you type in "poster boy/child" into google a definition pops right up. "Poster face" gets nothing.

 

[HecticArt]

want to consider myself nationalist and sometimes even alt right.

I guess you had to pick sides when you were doing time.

Jail made you a changed man....

 

[JHDK]

I want to like Meet the Press. I'm always happy when I'm awake early enough on Sunday to tune in. I give it this arbitrary, elevated status among news shows I guess because of its age and network. But oh boy do they not even try to be balanced. For the past 2 weeks the panel has been all about Trump bashing. They give 1 of 4 slots to an alleged GOP'er but they consistently find "conservatives" who are straight up RINOs. Today the "conservative" panelist basically agreed with far left zealot Joy Reid the whole time. I find their casting off putting.

Moving on...I can't be the first one to see this but all this outrage over Trump not using the term "white nationalists" in his bigotry condemnation comments yesterday is very similar to outrage over Obama's refusal to use the term "Islamic extremists". I think both men were pretty clear with their statements on the respective issues and people simply get a kick out of arguing semantics.

 

[memebag]

I want to like Meet the Press. I'm always happy when I'm awake early enough on Sunday to tune in. I give it this arbitrary, elevated status among news shows I guess because of its age and network. But oh boy do they not even try to be balanced. For the past 2 weeks the panel has been all about Trump bashing. They give 1 of 4 slots to an alleged GOP'er but they consistently find "conservatives" who are straight up RINOs. Today the "conservative" panelist basically agreed with far left zealot Joy Reid the whole time. I find their casting off putting.

There are not two equal sides to every issue.

Moving on...I can't be the first one to see this but all this outrage over Trump not using the term "white nationalists" in his bigotry condemnation comments yesterday is very similar to outrage over Obama's refusal to use the term "Islamic extremists". I think both men were pretty clear with their statements on the respective issues and people simply get a kick out of arguing semantics.

Obama (and others) avoided "Islamic extremism" because they didn't want to conflate a major religion with violent kooks. How is that anything like not saying "white nationalists"?

 

[memebag]

... I want to consider myself nationalist and sometimes even alt right.

Maybe you can explain how that works. I've never understood it. I understand nationalism in monoculture nations like Japan. It's just a polite term for bigotry and xenophobia. But I can't get my head around it in the US. US citizens are either descendants of people who took the land from someone else, or descendants of people who migrated here, or a tiny number of descendants of people the land was taken from. And all of it is recent enough that we don't have mythology about some divine connection to the land.

So a US nationalist puts US citizens above everyone else just because of their legal status? The second they receive citizenship they also receive this elevated status as people? US nationalism is ultimately a love of laws and legalism? And if that's true, it seems incongruous given your treatment of other laws.

And to me alt right is a group of conservative leaning people who get a kick out of trolling people with different opinions for the sole reason of getting under their skin. I think that's funny.

Yeah, straight white men don't have enough funny.

 

[JHDK]

So a US nationalist puts US citizens above everyone else just because of their legal status? The second they receive citizenship they also receive this elevated status as people? US nationalism is ultimately a love of laws and legalism? And if that's true, it seems incongruous given your treatment of other laws.

Thanks for fixing that. I wasn't sure what you were quoting at first.

I don't think US citizens are inherently better humans than those of other nations. What I do think is that American policies should be solely concerned with the betterment of American citizens' lives. Top priority of our politicians should be making the USA as strong and prosperous as possible for every person of every background that is legally here. All legislation/policy that deals with foreign affairs should be based around that idea. That is what nationalism is to me. And that is why I have no shame calling myself nationalist.

I don't think bringing up my legal troubles as a sign of my hypocrisy is a valid argument. I am an American who broke an American law. That law was in place to try and ensure a better, safer life for all Americans. I made a big mistake. I don't blame the system/laws for that mistake, the blame is mine alone. I was justly punished for my transgression and continue to be doing everything required of me to right my wrong.

 

[memebag]

But making the US strong and prosperous can be done in many different ways. We built the UN, for instance, to preserve peace after WWII which greatly benefited US business interests, but modern nationalists are almost unanimously opposed to that.

 

[memebag]

Obama (and others) avoided "Islamic extremism" because they didn't want to conflate a major religion with violent kooks. How is that anything like not saying "white nationalists"?

The guy that drove his car into the crowd (James Fields Jr.) was photographed earlier in the day carrrying a shield with the Vanguard America logo. They are a Christian group. If people were calling for Trump to decry Christian extremism it would be analogous, but they aren't. Not seriously.

 

[JHDK]

You make the point that putting the 2 words together makes people generalize what they think about each word. Like if it is said together enough, people will think that if you are Islamic your are an extremist or if you are an extremist you are Islamic.

So the same would go for white nationalist. Like I explained earlier I'm happy to be called a nationalist but I'm certainly not a white nationalist. So if Trump said the words white nationalist enough, people would start to think that all nationalists are white nationalists and thus racist.

I still think it's a case of arguing semantics.

 

[memebag]

Do t be a sucker, Koop.

 

[HecticArt]

Suppose the Nationalists decide that the Dutch shouldn't be American any more?
After all, the Hague Invasion Act didn't enough to exempt Americans from lesser countries interference.

 

[memebag]

You make the point that putting the 2 words together makes people generalize what they think about each word. Like if it is said together enough people will think that if you are Islamic your are an extremist or if you are an extremist you are Islamic.

So the same would go for white nationalist. Like I explained earlier I'm happy to be called a nationalist but I'm certainly not a white nationalist. So if Trump said the words white nationalist people would start to think that all whites are nationalists or all nationalists are white. Apart there is nothing wrong with being either of those things. Put them together and it's a way to describe racists.

I still think it's a case of arguing semantics.

No, that isn't the point I made. The US government didn't avoid "Islamic extremist" to keep people from generalizing what they think about each word. They did it to disconnect extremism from Islam. It's the same reason we aren't calling James Fields a Christian extremist. His extremism isn't Christian. We call terrorists terrorists regardless of their religious beliefs.

Trump isn't avoiding "white nationalist" to emphasize that James Fields' nationalism isn't white. It seems obvious he's avoiding it because he has used white nationalists to get elected and employs them at the White House.

 

[HecticArt]

I still think it's a case of arguing semantics

Find a better phrase to describe what you're thinking.
The Nazi's and Klan have taken any possible rational connotations away from it.

It's a global economic age that we're in now. Everything effects everything else. It's not possible to claim that it's America first at the expense of all others.

 

[JHDK]

Do t be a sucker, Koop.

Hah! That has been going around today. I watched it earlier this morning. I love those WWII era government films. Netflix and youtube have a bunch of them and I have watched them all.

Suppose the Nationalists decide that the Dutch shouldn't be American any more?
After all, the Hague Invasion Act didn't enough to exempt Americans from lesser countries interference.

I'm not sure if that is a joke or not?

I was pretty clear that my definition of nationalist is a person who wants ALL (genders, races, religions etc.) legal Americans to be considered first before we worry about other nation's people. Now if some law was made where people of Dutch decent had their American citizenship revoked than I would likely chance my stance.

It seems obvious he's avoiding it because he has used white nationalists to get elected and employs them at the White House.

I do not agree with this but lots of people made the point that Obama avoided using the term because it seemd obvious he was a Muslim sympathizer. I think saying Trump is avoiding the term because he is happy with white extremists is just as bonkers.

 

[memebag]

I do not agree with this but lots of people made the point that Obama avoided using the term because it seemd obvious he was a Muslim sympathizer. I think saying Trump is avoiding the term because he is happy with white extremists is just as bonkers.

What is a "Muslim sympathizer"?

 

[JHDK]

A person who wants to help or go easy on Muslim enemies of America.

Like I said, I don't think that is a fair statement about Obama at all. Just using it to make a comparison.

 

[memebag]

A person who wants to go easy on Muslim enemies of America.

Like I said, I don't think that is a fair statement about Obama at all. Just using it to make a comparison.

So, by "Muslim sympathizer" you really meant "terrorist sympathizer"? Or do you equate "Muslim" with "terrorist"?

We know Trump courted white supremacists. We know he hired Bannon and Miller for his campaign and administration. Why do you think he condemned "many sides" instead if condemning white supremacists?

 

[scotchandcigar]

No, that isn't the point I made. The US government didn't avoid "Islamic extremist" to keep people from generalizing what they think about each word. They did it to disconnect extremism from Islam. It's the same reason we aren't calling James Fields a Christian extremist. His extremism isn't Christian. We call terrorists terrorists regardless of their religious beliefs.

Trump isn't avoiding "white nationalist" to emphasize that James Fields' nationalism isn't white. It seems obvious he's avoiding it because he has used white nationalists to get elected and employs them at the White House.

White nationalists call themselves white nationalists. There is no further point to be made.