scotchandcigar
All I wanted was some steak
You clearly haven't been on the WIS forums. That would kill.
Pardon me, but do you have the time?
- Thread starter Aaron
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scotchandcigar
All I wanted was some steak
I think he already answered. Most people don't know what an automatic watch is.
JHDK
Release Robin's Bra
You mean and watch idiot savant? But that's just a bullshit term on the watch you seek forums... right? Or am I missing something?
IdRatherBeSkiing
Sherbert is NOT and NEVER WILL BE ice cream.
I probably don't. I always thought it was one that you did not have to wind. I don't know if it covers LED watches or Apple watches or just non-electric watches you don't have to wind.
Personally I think it is totally nuts to have to wind a watch in this day and age. With my forgetfulness my watch would be constantly stopped having forgotten to be wound.
JHDK
Release Robin's Bra
All of your watches are quartz and you dare to even think about busting my balls for my square addiction?
This is wildly inappropriate.
It's akin to if we both collected art and I corrected Renaissance paintings and you collected nfts.
So you say my MRG looks like plastic? There's some Grand Seikos and some The Citizens that are beautiful and have incredibly accurate quartz movements....
But besides that these Casio MRG squares are hands down the best of the best in terms of quartz watches. Both in movement and way more so in terms of sourced unique parts/materials that are assembled by artisan hands.
JHDK
Release Robin's Bra
All right...easy distinction.... Every quartz movement will have a battery and every automatic movement will have some winding springs.
Quartz didn't exist commercially until 1969 when Seiko put out the first wristwatch.
The battery vibrates a tiny quartz crystal. That vibration translates to an electrical signal that then is able to power the motor that moves the hands of the watch.
It's super cool! And most watch guys nowadays accept it but it's kind of cheating.
Real automatic watches use a rotor that winds springs through the movement of your wrist and that translates to turning gears that then move the hands of the watch.
It's way more intricate and it's way harder to get accurate so it's kind of like an art.
Your cheapest quartz watch is going to be plus or minus 15 seconds per month. And your cheapest automatic is going to be plus or minus 25 seconds per day.
But an automatic rated as a chronometer is tested to be about plus or minus 5 seconds per day.
That's what my Tudor is. And in practice it's about -1 so it's really good.
Every Rolex is a chronometer, so on top of the incredible build of the parts of the watch, the movement of the watch is also the best of the best in terms of automatics. That's why they cost way more than the best of the best of quartz casios.
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sadchild
Dude
I chuckled
I grinned
*raises hand*
I saw an explanation posted above, got about 2 lines into it, then said 'you know what, I'm not that interested' and bailed
scotchandcigar
All I wanted was some steak
OK, here's the clearest way I can explain it.
- Up until some time in the '60s or '70s, all watches were mechanical, just like a little Grandfather's clock. This illustration explains it
A mechanical watch has a mainspring which is wound - and then unwinds - to keep the gears moving and keep time. The hands of the watch are connected to the gears. The pinion part looks like a little pendulum when the watch is running.
Mechanical watches can get super-complicated when you have it change the day and date and do chronograph and lunar functions.
A mechanical watch must be wound by hand. But if you add a rotor which swings with the wearer's movements, it'll wind the watch automatically. Hence the automatic. In the illustration below, the rotor is the half-disc at top.
Here's a watch movement with a rotor
If you wear it everyday, it will keep itself running. They make watch winders that move the watch when you're not wearing them, if you care about having the watch keep running (I don't).
A quartz watch uses a quartz oscillator chip in an IC package, and a battery, to move the gears that are attached to the hands and date.
A quartz watch doesn't have most of the parts that are needed for a mechanical watch. In some quartz watches, a solar panel charges the battery. That doesn't make it an "automatic" watch.
Quartz vs. mechanical watches are analogous to internal-combustion-engine cars vs. electric cars. They both look the same externally, but one has an engine or mechanics, and the other just a battery and chips.
HecticArt
Administrator
I have 2 traditional winders. and 2 pocket watch winders that I never use. (They were my grandfathers and barely work anymore.)
Lemme look into that.......
Yes. I did.
Looks like it's plastic.
scotchandcigar
All I wanted was some steak
For the Cliff's Notes version, just look at the bottom picture in my post. Mechanical watch on the left, quartz on right.
scotchandcigar
All I wanted was some steak
Inside of a quartz watch, with case removed
JHDK
Release Robin's Bra
Some of them actually can be quite fascinating to see. I mean it's nowhere near as elegant and timelessly engineered as even a basic automatic but some of them are still quite fascinating to see even if they don't have all the gears and rotors and what not.
For example, Citizen and Grand Seiko both make high accuracy quartz that are plus or minus 5 seconds per year, not month year and they are interesting to see.
Oh and I have a square I haven't showed you guys yet. It was one of the 40th anniversary models.... That is a skeleton quartz. I've never seen a skeleton quartz before. And of course, that's because quartz are less interesting than automatic movements but it's still freaking cool. Check it out....
It's kind of hard to read due to the transparent LCD screen But it's super cool and you see the big chip or whatever in the middle? It has four stars on it for the 40th anniversary.
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scotchandcigar
All I wanted was some steak
The see-through watch is interesting, but not my thing. The Grand Seiko just has nice looking cover plates over the movement, but you're not actually seeing anything other than the battery and motor coil.
JHDK
Release Robin's Bra
You're right, and like I said they are way less interesting than looking at even a cheap automatic, but display case facts don't really show that much. You see the rotor and maybe one gear or two.
It's still really freaking cool though and I love display case backs. I need to get an open heart or a skeleton at some point.
scotchandcigar
All I wanted was some steak
Correct.
Agreed. Nearly all mechanical watches sold are automatic (self-winding). But I'm sure there are watch collectors who might have old ones that are manual-wind.
JHDK
Release Robin's Bra
So how much do you guys think a watch that retails for $4,000 costs to manufacturer?
Because I did some looking into it and it's actually kind of upsetting.
So for the high-end casios MRG Squares (The most expensive Squares currently on the market) according to Gemini, and Gemini gets lots of shit wrong so who knows how far off this is, but she said MRG B5000 probably cost around $450 to manufacture.
A Tudor Black Bay 58 according to Gemini likely costs around $600 to manufacture.
And both of those watches are the same price retail.
Now the Casio bracelet and bezel materials are fancier than the Tudor, but the Tudor materials are no slouch and of course their movement costs way more to manufacture and also to certify. However, the MRGs are made in much smaller batches.
Even still, I am guessing that cassio probably turns slightly more profit per unit than tutor on those specific models I'm talking about. And that makes sense because no one thinks about getting a Casio Square as their first luxury watch unless they are a complete obsessed idiot like I. You walk it to a jewelry store, you're never going to see an MRG unless you're in a very specific store, but you're likely to see Tudor right next to Rolex and Tag and Omega.
Anyway, it kind of bothered me that they both are relatively inexpensive to manufacture. I was assuming that they would be somewhere in the $1,000 range. But whatever, I am still incredibly happy with both and I would buy them both again.
Because I did some looking into it and it's actually kind of upsetting.
So for the high-end casios MRG Squares (The most expensive Squares currently on the market) according to Gemini, and Gemini gets lots of shit wrong so who knows how far off this is, but she said MRG B5000 probably cost around $450 to manufacture.
A Tudor Black Bay 58 according to Gemini likely costs around $600 to manufacture.
And both of those watches are the same price retail.
Now the Casio bracelet and bezel materials are fancier than the Tudor, but the Tudor materials are no slouch and of course their movement costs way more to manufacture and also to certify. However, the MRGs are made in much smaller batches.
Even still, I am guessing that cassio probably turns slightly more profit per unit than tutor on those specific models I'm talking about. And that makes sense because no one thinks about getting a Casio Square as their first luxury watch unless they are a complete obsessed idiot like I. You walk it to a jewelry store, you're never going to see an MRG unless you're in a very specific store, but you're likely to see Tudor right next to Rolex and Tag and Omega.
Anyway, it kind of bothered me that they both are relatively inexpensive to manufacture. I was assuming that they would be somewhere in the $1,000 range. But whatever, I am still incredibly happy with both and I would buy them both again.