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AJ_II

AJ_II

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goreds2 said:
Hoffman: New closer for the BREW CREW.
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Wow, what a shock. The Eric Gagne signing didn't quite work out for Milwaukee.

Here's an interesting question for debate...does Trevor Hoffman deserve a spot in the Hall of Fame? He's the all-time saves leader in the MLB, but what does that mean really?
 
Ifandorbut

Ifandorbut

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Avuncular_Jew II said:
Wow, what a shock. The Eric Gagne signing didn't quite work out for Milwaukee.

Here's an interesting question for debate...does Trevor Hoffman deserve a spot in the Hall of Fame? He's the all-time saves leader in the MLB, but what does that mean really?
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I would lean towards saying yes. If Mariano Rivera is a sure thing HOF, then HOFF is a HOF. Mariano played on a team with a better winning percentage than did Hoffman, he simply had more of a chance to be that good. Mariano has 482 saves, Hoffman has 554. Rivera was in the top 5 for Cy Young voting five times to Hoffman's 3 times. Their ERA is somewhat comparable in that Rivera stands at 2.29 and Hoffman at 2.78. Sure, Rivera did it in the A.L.(a much tougher league to excel in ERA wise), but again, Hoffman couldn't have had nearly as many chances.

One thing about Hoffman away from his HOF chances; I was at the game when Hoffman was a new Padre and he came in to close out a game. What he did do was bust Robby Thompson's grill. It hurt the Giants that year big time and the Giants were not able to fend off the Atlanta Braves. It may also have had a hand in the Giants not resigning Will Clark because Thompson was getting a ton of sympathy from the fans to stay another year.

AHHH....don't get me started. As much as I hate to say it...I think Trevor belongs in the HOF.
 
goreds2

goreds2

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Ifandorbut said:
I would lean towards saying yes. If Mariano Rivera is a sure thing HOF, then HOFF is a HOF. Mariano played on a team with a better winning percentage than did Hoffman, he simply had more of a chance to be that good. Mariano has 482 saves, Hoffman has 554. Rivera was in the top 5 for Cy Young voting five times to Hoffman's 3 times. Their ERA is somewhat comparable in that Rivera stands at 2.29 and Hoffman at 2.78. Sure, Rivera did it in the A.L.(a much tougher league to excel in ERA wise), but again, Hoffman couldn't have had nearly as many chances.
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Great points you gave especially saying he did not play for good teams each year. Yes, Hoffman deserves to be in the Hall.
 
AJ_II

AJ_II

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I agree with you guys, I think it'd be pretty difficult to leave out the all-time save leader from the Hall. And voters seem more willing to vote in closers now, with recent inductions of Bruce Sutter and the Goose.

Another interesting question. Do you think guys like Sutter and Gossage would vote for Hoffman? Of course, they often had to pitch 2 to 3 innings in order to get a save. Nowadays, it's much easier, and I'd wonder how much respect the old school closers have for today's version.
 
Ifandorbut

Ifandorbut

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Avuncular_Jew II said:
I agree with you guys, I think it'd be pretty difficult to leave out the all-time save leader from the Hall. And voters seem more willing to vote in closers now, with recent inductions of Bruce Sutter and the Goose.

Another interesting question. Do you think guys like Sutter and Gossage would vote for Hoffman? Of course, they often had to pitch 2 to 3 innings in order to get a save. Nowadays, it's much easier, and I'd wonder how much respect the old school closers have for today's version.
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I think that they would, the retired baseball players seem to stick together, with the exception of guys like Canseco who always seems to have an ax to grind.

I also think by being gracious enough to a closer like the Eck or with Hoffman, Sutter and Goose also have another opportunity to throw in some good natured ribbing while they fellate themselves by mentioning how much harder it was for them to get into the Hall.

That's why it's getting harder to compare eras...along with E.R.A.'s.
 
goreds2

goreds2

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Avuncular_Jew II said:
I agree with you guys, I think it'd be pretty difficult to leave out the all-time save leader from the Hall. And voters seem more willing to vote in closers now, with recent inductions of Bruce Sutter and the Goose.

Another interesting question. Do you think guys like Sutter and Gossage would vote for Hoffman? Of course, they often had to pitch 2 to 3 innings in order to get a save. Nowadays, it's much easier, and I'd wonder how much respect the old school closers have for today's version.
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Also, Rollie Fingers is in the Hall.

I would think Sutter and Gossage would vote for Hoffman. In their era, they did go more than one inning on some saves but I don't think it was done on a regular basis. I think it depended on the game situation. I do think the manager made sure that the pitcher did not face the same batter twice. You are correct in saying it is hardly ever done now. I am sure if we did a google, the more than one inning save stat is somewhere.

I think the starting pitcher gets a little more respect in the hall because they had to face the same batter 3 to 4 times a game where they (the batters) had a chance to adjust to the pitcher.

In his prime with the Cubs, Bruce Sutter was the best reliever I ever saw with that split finger fastball. If you get a chance to see some old Cub games on the MLB Network, make a note to watch him.
 
gilpdawg

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Ifandorbut said:
I think that they would, the retired baseball players seem to stick together, with the exception of guys like Canseco who always seems to have an ax to grind.

I also think by being gracious enough to a closer like the Eck or with Hoffman, Sutter and Goose also have another opportunity to throw in some good natured ribbing while they fellate themselves by mentioning how much harder it was for them to get into the Hall.

That's why it's getting harder to compare eras...along with E.R.A.'s.
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Best way to compare ERAs and batting stats from other eras is using the OPS+ and ERA+ stats from baseballreference.com. That compares stats from the league average from that year. 100 is league average. A 100 in 1980 would be very different from a 100 in 2008.
 
goreds2

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The MLB TV Network is predicting the longer current unsigned free agents wait, the better the chance of only getting a one year contract.
 
goreds2

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It looks like a CATCH22 for Griffey. Atlanta would be the better family choice for him.

Griffey decision is imminent
Veteran slugger reportedly to choose between Mariners, Braves
By Bobbie Dittmeier / MLB.com


Ken Griffey Jr. will choose whether to sign with the Mariners or Braves today or by early Tuesday at the latest, the Seattle Times, citing multiple sources, reported on Monday.
Atlanta, seeking an outfielder, recently joined in bidding for the services of Griffey, the active home run leader with 611 and a free agent. The Braves are believed to be able to offer no more than $2.5 million in total compensation to Griffey, according to the Times, but can also offer the 39-year-old the opportunity to play closer to his home in Orlando, Fla.


Griffey's daughter plays basketball in Atlanta and his son will be playing high school football later this year in Orlando.

The Mariners have been talking to Griffey's agent for some time, as recently as Friday. Seattle would likely utilize Griffey as a designated hitter.

"I am still talking to the Mariners," agent Brian Goldberg said on Friday.

Bringing Griffey back to the organization with which he started his career in 1989 would be especially big news in the Northwest. He played his first 11 seasons with the Mariners, winning the American League MVP award in 1997, and is still revered in the Seattle area.

"We've just got to be patient," Mariners chief operating officer Howard Lincoln told the Times on Sunday.

The Times noted that the Mariners have roughly $1.5 million of budget room left but could stretch that to accommodate a Griffey deal, given the added revenue he could generate in ticket and merchandising sales.

"He's still got something left in the tank," Braves third baseman Chipper Jones said of Griffey on Sunday. "There's no doubt in my mind. When a guy has a swing like that, he can get out of bed and hit."
 
goreds2

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Reds win today on a walk off homer. I think that is their 4th Grand Slam this spring. Come on guys, let's save some for when the bell rings. :)
 
goreds2

goreds2

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Pedro talk persists in Dodgers camp
Speculation increases the longer LA goes without fifth starter

By Ken Gurnick / MLB.com
Pedro Martinez began his illustrious career with the Dodgers in 1992-93. (Getty Images)
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* Astros having no contact with Pedro


PHOENIX -- Before one of the Dominican Republic's recent World Baseball Classic games, Pedro Martinez told Tom Lasorda and scouting advisor Ralph Avila he wanted to finish his career where it started, with the Dodgers.

"That's what he said," said Lasorda, Martinez's former manager. "I don't know, it was just conversation."

Pedro talk persists in Dodgers camp | MLB.com: News
 
Aaron

Aaron

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Anyone know what happened to Ben Sheets? He's on my fantasy team this year, but I see he's not available... is he not under contract with anyone, or is he injured? :idunno:
 
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