MLB Off Season (Hot Stove League) Thread
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What can the Reds possibly do?
By Hal McCoy | Friday, November 6, 2009, 12:03 AM
The Empire won, as expected - even though it was the first time since 2000, even with baseball’s highest payroll every year since their previous championship in 2000.
I refrain from calling the New York Yankees the Evil Empire because they are playing within the rules, as skewered as the rules may be.
Their payroll this year was $220 million. Last winter they spent $450 million to sign three players to multi-year contracts - pitchers C.C. Sabathia and A.J. Burnett, plus first baseman Mark Teixiera.
What to do? What to do? Here is an idea. Let’s break up the majors into two leagues - The Big Bucks League, for those teams who want to pay more than $100 million in salaries and The Spare Change League for those who want to pay less than $100 million.
This year, The Big Bucks League would have 11 teams:
NY Yankees $220,097,414
NY Mets $145,367,987
Chicago Cubs $134,058,500
Boston $122,435,399
Detroit $119,160,145
LA Angels $118,964,000
Seattle $112,053,666
Philadelphia $111,209,046
Houston $102,996,414
Chicago Sox $100,598,500
LA Dodgers $100,008,592
Absurd? Maybe so. Maybe it makes as much sense as the way things are done right now.
THAT BRINGS US to the Cincinnati Reds and what they can do? Disband? Join the Class AAA International League? Drop back 15 yards and punt?
Under current rules, there is no way, none, zip, nada that the Reds can ever win.
Some might say, “Well, the St. Louis Cardinals compete every year and their payroll this year was only $87.5 million.”
The Reds had the 17th highest payroll (out of 30) at $73.5 million, so what’s another $12 million? Well, it is a whole bunch when you don’t have it. And it is a whole bunch when your attendance took a horrendous downturn last season.
And the Reds front office already is on record as saying they won’t increase payroll. Probably it will be reduced.
What can you do when you start things off with four players owed $46 million next year - closer Francisco Cordero ($12 million), pitcher Aaron Harang ($12 million), pitcher Bronson Arroyo ($11 million) and third baseman Scott Rolen ($11 million)?
That leaves $27 million for the other 21 players and with the average salary in major-league baseball at $3.27 million, where does that leave the Reds? Mostly standing with empty cash bags.
General manager Walt Jocketty needs to do two things as fast as he can this winter: (One) Trade Cordero. (Two) Trade Harang.
By trading Cordero, the Reds not only save $12 million this year, they save $13 million next year. An expensive closer for a sub-mediocre team is an unnecessary evil. It’s a job Nick Masset can do.
By trading Harang, the Reds save another $11 million. Harang has had two straight down years, but he is still marketable. Several scouts told me late last year that their teams would be happy to deal for Harang.
BUT FOR 2010, that’s still only a savings of $23 million, which isn’t going to buy you much on the free agent market. Just look at how much the Yankees paid.
The Reds could only afford middle-of-the-road free agents and then they’re taking a chance. Will the guy be good or will he be an expensive flop. It’s one reason Jocketty says the Reds won’t dabble much in the free agent cash parties. And I don’t blame him.
There is only one way the Reds can win a division title. Every player, and that’s every player, has to have a season that is better than the back of his baseball card. How often does that happen? The nth of never?
They could get by with the same year from first baseman Joey Votto. If they can talk catcher Ramon Hernandez into taking a cut from his $8 million option and sign for maybe $3 million and he has a career year, that would help.
Brandon Phillips needs to return to his numbers of two years ago, not the year he had last year and he has to eliminate all the selfish things he does and the things he does that distracts from the team.
They need a better hitting shortstop than Paul Janish - and good luck with that.
They need Scott Rolen to hit more homers and hit .300 and stay healthy all year - and good luck with that.
They need to sign Jonny Gomes, who hit 20 home runs in about half a season. Indications are, though, that they won’t offer him arbitration.
They need Drew Stubbs to be the player he was in September and that’s possible. They need right fielder Jay Bruce to prove he can hit major-league pitching, something he hasn’t come close to doing that last season-and-a-half.
They need Arroyo to pitch even better than he did last year, pitch all year the way he did the second half. They need Homer Bailey to be the pitcher he was the second half. They need Johnny Cueto to come around the way Bailey did.
Those are all Big Needs - and good luck with that.
The Reds will be cutting their payroll from 71 million into the 65 million range. There's talk that they could lose at least one, if not all of these players before April: Brandon Phillips, Bronson Arroyo and Aaron Harang. They also might move Votto to make room for the kid, Yonder Alonso.
No, there's nothing wrong with baseball...just ask the good fans in New York....they'll tell you.
No, there's nothing wrong with baseball...just ask the good fans in New York....they'll tell you.
What's sad is the Astros had the 8th highest payroll last year and sucked anyway. I guess that's what happens when you sink $14.8 million into Miguel Tejada...and $19 million into Carlos Lee.
Carlos is a good player making superstar money. Even the Yankees wouldn't touch his contract.
The Tigers are looking to trade Curtis Granderson and Edwin Jackson - http://www.detnews.com/article/2009...ers-shopping-Edwin-Jackson--Curtis-Granderson
Carlos is a good player making superstar money. Even the Yankees wouldn't touch his contract.
The Tigers are looking to trade Curtis Granderson and Edwin Jackson - http://www.detnews.com/article/2009...ers-shopping-Edwin-Jackson--Curtis-Granderson
This is at the heart of what myopic Yankee fan can't understand when the gripe about paying for championships comes up. It's not that having and spending the most money guarantees the ring, but if you look at what teams like Houston or Cincinnati or San Francisco go through each year to just compete, they can't make payroll mistakes like the Yankees can and truly have a legitimate post season birth. The Yankees can absorb injuries, costly overpriced busts or even half failures or disappointments like Burnett or Wang and still make the playoffs as if nothing was ever in their way.
The Giants were hampered by three foolish contracts, most notably Zito's, although he pitched like an upper tier pitcher again. His contract is stupid. Renteria's and Rowands and paying for Dave Roberts to retire...just ridiculous.
The Yankees payroll for 2010 is already at 166 million, and that's without the raises their relief staff will be getting and the settling of who will be playing in their outfield and in their DH spot. They're also looking at Lackey and Hallyday.
Baseball is broken. Even though a Cinderella team can puncture the Death Star and blow it up, let's face it, barring injuries next year will be pretty much the same as last year.
Well said, Ifandorbut...I agree.
And it's already being rumored that the Yankees will trade for Curtis Granderson to replace Damon in their outfield. Teams like the Yankees have the luxury of simply reloading every year without having to cultivate prospects in the farm system. With no salary cap, they're always in the World Series mix. They don't have to wait on talent to develop...they just go and hand-pick it from around the league.
And it's already being rumored that the Yankees will trade for Curtis Granderson to replace Damon in their outfield. Teams like the Yankees have the luxury of simply reloading every year without having to cultivate prospects in the farm system. With no salary cap, they're always in the World Series mix. They don't have to wait on talent to develop...they just go and hand-pick it from around the league.
Finally, good news for Royals fans!!
Zack Greinke WINS the 2009 AL Cy Young Award!!
Royals' Greinke beats out King Felix for AL Cy Young Award - MLB - CBSSports.com Baseball
Zack Greinke WINS the 2009 AL Cy Young Award!!
Royals' Greinke beats out King Felix for AL Cy Young Award - MLB - CBSSports.com Baseball
Totally deserving. The dude should have won 25 games, but he never got to pitch against the Royals all season.
Good to see the writers do something right.
Good to see the writers do something right.
Lincecum repeats as Cy Young winner
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Associated Press
NEW YORK -- Giants ace Tim Lincecum has won the NL Cy Young Award, becoming the first repeat winner in the major leagues since Randy Johnson was voted the prize four straight times from 1999-2002.
Lincecum
Lincecum led the NL with 261 strikeouts and tied for the league lead with four complete games and two shutouts.
Only 10 points separated the top three in one of the closest ballots in the award's history.
Lincecum received 11 first-place votes, 12 seconds and nine thirds for 100 points in balloting released Thursday by the Baseball Writers' Association of America. Cardinals ace Chris Carpenter was next with 94 points and teammate Adam Wainwright finished third with 90 despite getting the most first-place votes with 12.
Comment Email Print Share
Associated Press
NEW YORK -- Giants ace Tim Lincecum has won the NL Cy Young Award, becoming the first repeat winner in the major leagues since Randy Johnson was voted the prize four straight times from 1999-2002.
Lincecum
Lincecum led the NL with 261 strikeouts and tied for the league lead with four complete games and two shutouts.
Only 10 points separated the top three in one of the closest ballots in the award's history.
Lincecum received 11 first-place votes, 12 seconds and nine thirds for 100 points in balloting released Thursday by the Baseball Writers' Association of America. Cardinals ace Chris Carpenter was next with 94 points and teammate Adam Wainwright finished third with 90 despite getting the most first-place votes with 12.
Zack Greinke WINS the 2009 AL Cy Young Award!!
Royals' Greinke beats out King Felix for AL Cy Young Award - MLB - CBSSports.com Baseball
As much as I hate to say it -- CC Sabathia deserved the CY. Greinke didn't have the luxury of facing his own team for a few starts, but didn't have to pitch in the biggest market with a huge salary on his back. He pitched well in the regular season + playoffs, came into the season in shape (no annual early-season groin/hamstring injury that he used to get with the tribe), and kept out of trouble during his first year in the big city with a pocket of big bucks.
Lincecum repeats as Cy Young winner
Comment Email Print Share
Associated Press
NEW YORK -- Giants ace Tim Lincecum has won the NL Cy Young Award, becoming the first repeat winner in the major leagues since Randy Johnson was voted the prize four straight times from 1999-2002.
Lincecum
Lincecum led the NL with 261 strikeouts and tied for the league lead with four complete games and two shutouts.
Only 10 points separated the top three in one of the closest ballots in the award's history.
Lincecum received 11 first-place votes, 12 seconds and nine thirds for 100 points in balloting released Thursday by the Baseball Writers' Association of America. Cardinals ace Chris Carpenter was next with 94 points and teammate Adam Wainwright finished third with 90 despite getting the most first-place votes with 12.
This was the toughest year in a little while, it legitimately could have gone three different ways. I feel bad for Carpenter, I was leaning his way, just about six inches inside his way, but his way nonetheless. However, I totally understand giving it to Timmy.
Man, I don't see how the Giants can afford to keep Lincecum, Zito and his fat contract AND give Matt Cain a deserving raise AND still get a bat so that the Freak doesn't have to 3 and 4-hit teams every night in order to win.
Yeah, but there's nothing wrong with the financial side of baseball.
Wait...let me get this straight...Sabathia deserves the award because he pitches his home games on baseball's biggest stage while earning a huge paycheck AND because he didn't get hurt like he did in Cleveland AND because he kept out of trouble by not misspending his money?
Alright...sounds good to me.
They pitched nearly the same amount of innings and Zack had a better ERA by over a run, he also dominated CC in strikeouts.
The run support the Yankees gave should have landed CC more wins than 19, especially with a good ERA. Likewise, I don't know how in the hell Zack can put up those sick numbers playing for a team that has a hard time putting decent win streaks together.
However, by your logic I would put CC as number one, Pettite as number 2, Joba number 3, Mariano, even though a closer, he should be number 4....
Fer chrisakes, enough of the Yankee circle jerking, we get it...they have good players. Zack was the man, he was without a doubt the best in baseball by the All Star Game, he came down to earth in the second half, you could say he pitched closer to what CC did.
Greinke was clearly the most deserving...2.16 ERA in the DH League? That's amazing. I don't know how it wasn't unanimous. I'm guessing maybe a couple Pacific Northwest writers gave Felix Hernandez 2 first place votes, and probably a Detroit guy gave Verlander one. The votes really should be made public.
The NL had three deserving guys...wouldn't have had a problem with any of them winning. Lincecum should probably be thankful that Carpenter and Wainwright are on the same team (splitting votes maybe?).
The MVP's should clearly go to Pujols and Mauer. I think Mauer might get snubbed though...
The NL had three deserving guys...wouldn't have had a problem with any of them winning. Lincecum should probably be thankful that Carpenter and Wainwright are on the same team (splitting votes maybe?).
The MVP's should clearly go to Pujols and Mauer. I think Mauer might get snubbed though...
The two Bay Area scrubs didn't put Lincecum as their number one, Schulman and Baggarly, they went Carpenter I believe. I can't say the same for the St. Louis guys, I have no idea what they did.
As for the two writers that left Carpenter off the list; it wouldn't have mattered, the best he could have done was to have tied, but that would be assuming he would have received two first place votes, and seeing as he was left off the list all together I doubt that would have happened. Two first votes would have meant a tie for Cy Young.
I understand the thought process as to why, but I don't agree with it. He deserved to be one of the top three in votes, in my opinion.
As for the two writers that left Carpenter off the list; it wouldn't have mattered, the best he could have done was to have tied, but that would be assuming he would have received two first place votes, and seeing as he was left off the list all together I doubt that would have happened. Two first votes would have meant a tie for Cy Young.
I understand the thought process as to why, but I don't agree with it. He deserved to be one of the top three in votes, in my opinion.
First, I hate the Yankees, the payroll, Yankee fans....
The point I was making is that he produced under great pressure - the kind found in Boston and NY. I believe CC did more for his team than Zack did for his losing team. It will be interesting to see how Zack produces when he is expected to win in a big market. Not as much pressure pitching for a team where they hope he can stop losing streaks. Lucky for KC, he won't be leaving for the big bucks for a while.
I expected CC to stumble during his first year where the media expected him to produce. The Cleveland market was easy on CC, Milwaukee was happy to have him there for a half season.
I don't buy into the idea of the big market sliding scale of importance. The Royals started off pretty good and then they fell to shit.
If a pitcher doesn't pitch well in New York he's labeled as a guy that can't win under the bright lights. I think having the best players playing behind you 1 through 8 on defense and 1 through 9 in the batters box has more to do with "big apple" success than does their beat writers and/or myopic fan base.
I find it more impressive that Zack was able to do more with less, that he was able to outpitch CC. Another thing to remember, if you're going to use the "bright lights" scenario; imagine how much harder it is to get up to perform at your highest level in July when your team is pretty much eliminated from post season play and some of the guys are counting the days until it's "hunting and fishing and golf season" again.
CC is an outstanding pitcher and he has been for years now, but Zack was the man this year and I'm glad to see him get recognized by the rest of the country(or baseball writers)as such.
It's so awesome that you ended your post by indicating that Zack will leave for the big bucks. Every fan knows this to be true. It's the rare individual that plays his days for one team, I hope he doesn't leave Kansas City. I'm tired of New York using the rest of the league as their minor league system.
Oh yeah, eff the Yankees and their fans...I hope they struggle for twenty years and spend over 5 billion dollars for the right to live in third place.
You may be right, but the Cy Young isn't an MVP award...it's an MOP (Most Outstanding).
Only a real salary cap would stop that from happening. I figured that the Indians had a chance to keep CC since they drafted him from HS and developed him from the beginning. He liked the area and team, but..... 20mil a year beats being the guy that stays on the team for life. They are indeed rare these days, and typically come from markets where they can pay the player good enough to stay (Chipper Jones, Derek Jeter, Cal Ripken).
The Indians had a guy who wanted to stay, catcher Victor Martinez, but they traded him anyway. Not a good front office move to trade the guys who stay out of trouble, play hard, and actually want to stay with the team.
I grew up with the Yankees taking most of talent from the Indians during the 1970s, so their collecting of good players from other teams is nothing new for me.
The voting doesn't seem to go that way in most years. The wins seem to override other stats. I saw Zack in his 15 strikeout effort in August against the Indians last season. Haven't witnessed that type of stuff since Kerry Wood and Roger Clemens. "Greinke was throwing a 69 mph change-up followed by a 97 mph fastball". Too bad he ran out of pitches - he couldn't make it to the 9th to tack on a few more "K"s.