Discussion in 'Apple' started by MM, Oct 11, 2008.
Yes, we are keeping your suggestion for the motto. "How do you take your radio?" :bigthumbup:
I'll come over here to chat about my mac and iPhone since I get hated on everywhere else.
Always good to have another Mac user here. Welcome stumpy!! :wave:
Mac user here. Been using them since about 1986 when I took a writing class in college.
White Macbook at home
White Macbook at work
The wife has a Mini.
2 old G3 desktops
Mac SE FDHD
I took a detour to linux there for a few years, but man, there in no comparison to how things just work and play so nice together in Mac land. The one thing that brought me back to using one every day was the introduction of Spaces to OS X. Virtual desktops opened up a whole new world when I was using linux, and having them on the Mac my life now seems complete
Please do. I'm jealous BTW.
Hello, I'm a Mac.
And I'm a PC.
Yep... got both. A nice white Macbook that's about a year and a half old, along with two G4 Mac mini's... which are sitting in a box. And then the PC side of things... a nice little Sony Vaio laptop running XP Pro, and a Dell Latitude running Vista Ultimate, and finally a Dell Optiplex GX270 with XP Media Center.
My Windows systems rarely get used... only when I can't get something to work on my Mac (which considering I have Boot Camp set up also is very rare) or when I need to keep 'em current with Windows Updates.
I'm on my Mac right now. I am a multiplatform user, though.
But I LOVE "teh OS X".
My Mac is a Mac Mini. It is my entry into Macdom.
I used to have both, but the Dell I purchased seven or eight years ago finally took its last rebooting. I now have two Macs. I also have a 60GB iPod.
I'm not gay for Apple product, it just sort of worked out that I bought them more and more as I realized I enjoyed not having to fix them all of the time.
I'll pay the initial hit for less headaches down the road.
I downloaded XP on my daughter's MB last week so she could take a specific course at school. When she is not home, I play around with her MB (with her permission, I am not that daring) and have to have a MB. I can't explain why, but the darn thing just works.
Sirius_Rich, this is why I'm glad I made the switch.
Go get a new Mac......
Let us know what you get.
I want to make the switch from PC bad. Ever since i got into photography last year I have been a huge fan of Aperture(even though I have cs3 master collection). And I love my iPhone , its trying to get my wife to switch is the thing getting in the way. I want a Mac Pro for the house and maybe do a carputer setup with a Mac mini. If she doesn't want to make the switch then I will just get a Macbook Pro. And sell my notebook.
I want to make the switch soon, so she best get with the program.
Benji, you'll never look back after you switch.
It was the iPhone first for me, then my addiction grew and grew.
3 Macs ( 2 desktops and a macbook pro laptop) for me, with 2 Windows HP desktops (one Vista & one XP Pro), no comparison, Mac rules!! You get what you pay for, would you rather own a Kia or a Bentley? No one that I know who has switched to Mac has been sorry, they only are sorry they waited so long!!
I've tried to keep somewhat quiet here, so as not to cause any flame wars...but.......
Joe, you know I love you bro, but I gotta debunk this statement. Macs are fine computers, and are ascetically pleasing enough. They should be for the amount of money you spend. But a Bentley?!? Not even close. Compare a high-end PC at the same pricepoint of a Mac Pro or MacBook Pro, and the PCs specs will blow it out of the water.
I tend to think of a Mac as a Volkswagen. They're somewhat hip, look cool, and are engineered alright. They'll always have a strong marketshare, but will never overcome the dominance of the PC.
Ryan, I know there are great PC's out there, some Jags and Rolls, but Mac is no VW, and the price thing really isn't all that it is cranked up to be. Here is an arcticle:
Mac Pro Beats HP and Dell at Their Own Game: Price
Frank Fox - 2008.05.16
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You can say that Apple is incredibly good at marketing, but that won't gain them market share for the long run. To match the marketing message, you also need to beat the PC makers at their own game. This means selling Macs for less money.
If you think that Macs are still being made in California or Ireland, where labor costs are high, it's time to wake up and smell the rice. Taiwan is the home of several large electronic fabrication shop that service HP, Apple, Dell, Acer, and others.
These large companies - including Quanta, Foxconn, and Asustek - build most of the world's computers, especially laptops. If the same contract manufactures are making almost all the computers, then we can expect similarities in pricing. For similarly priced computer goods, you'll find the prices are within $100 most of the time. There will be specials that may knock off an extra $50 or give you a free printer if you are lucky.
To lower prices, PC makers have been improving their supply chain management. This is the key to lower computer prices and greater market share. Dell in particular has used these improvements to battle for market share.
A Level Field
The problem with this type of game, the other players catch on, and you eventually loose your edge. HP eventually caught up to Dell, and now we have Apple working to catch up with both of them. The playing field is fairly level for everyone who contracts with these Taiwanese companies.
So what, you may ask, if everyone is using these same contractors? How does Apple beat these chumps at their own game?
The key to low price is mass production. The key to mass production is making everything exactly the same. The key to making everything the same: You have to reduce your product selection.
They tell you that Apple simplified its product line to make the choice easier for consumers, but the pay off in a streamlined product selection is cheaper manufacturing. Apple has one of the simplest product lines in the market.
Let's compare desktops,
Apple: Mac mini, iMac, Mac Pro
Dell: Inspiron 530, XPS One, XPS 210, XPS 420, XPS 630, XPS 720, XPS 730
Looks like Apple wins for having fewer products. Worse for Dell, I only listed the home computer models. They also have nine different ones for business within three main model categories, Vostro, Optiplex, and Precision Workstation. (Does anyone besides me think these names stink?) All of these models also allows for custom configurations to add to the complexity.
Sure any one of these models may out sell everything Apple makes, but complexity is costing Dell and others money.
Money, in the form of margins, is where Apple shows its smarts. Apple earns 32.9%. If they forecast less, say 30%, then Apple stock drops. Dell comes in at 18.8%, and everyone thinks they are doing a great job.
No, this doesn't prove that Macs cost more than Dells; it proves that Apple is better at keeping its revenue.
We'll talk prices later.
Lest we forget Microsoft, they just reported their annual earnings. These guys raked in $14.45 billion dollars revenue in Q3 2008 that just ended. And they scored $4.41 billion in operating income. That is Microsoft 's contribution to the cost of PC computers. They like these costs to remain hidden so no one can complain about being overcharged.
Every computer maker, except for Apple, has to toss a chunk of their earnings into a pile for Microsoft to feed from. But what happens if computers stop going down in price? Microsoft can't charge more, and its profits flat line. Microsoft made less profit compared to a year ago, but the number of computer sales keeps growing - something must be going on. They'd like you to believe that software pirates are stealing their software.
Yeah, sure, that must be the problem! It can't have anything to do with Vista.
Let's sum it up: Apple has matched the supply chain game and beats the other players by having a simpler product line. On top of this, none of Apple's money goes to pay Microsoft for the use of Windows. People may be swayed into looking at Macs because of the marketing buzz, but they are buying because the prices are comparable.
Not bad for a company Michael Dell was ready to close the doors on 10 years ago.
Blowing Up the 'Macs Are More Expensive' Myth
Apple has mastered the supply chain game. They show their skill by not only making better gross margins, but also by matching or beating the other PC makers on price.
What am I talking about? "You are full of crap", may be another good response.
I wouldn't have believed it myself until I started digging into prices. In business terms, Apple has gone back and "sharpened its pencils". In fact, for a similarly equipped computer, you may be better off buying from Apple and installing your own copy of Vista - that way you have the flexibility to run either and the cost difference is small.
The tricky part of comparing is that not everyone makes a comparable machine. A second issue is quality. That can prove to be a real problem when two models from the same vendors can't be equally compared.
How are we to show a fair comparison with Apple?
We are going to bridge these gaps by stating that our goal is not to show Apple has the cheapest computers around. Apple doesn't want to hurt its reputation by selling super-cheap computers that are obsolete the day you bring them home. Apple has a minimum low-end computer, and it doesn't go below that level.
I will show that the base Apple models have a similar price to a computer from a PC vendor. In other words, assuming you have $600, $1,200, or $2,300 to spend on a computer - at these price points can Apple sell a similarly equipped computer for close to the same price?
The first part of the price myth is the thinking that only Apple sells computers for thousands of dollars. That is just stupid and narrow-minded. Alienware Computers (recently purchased by Dell) sells high performance desktop starting at $999 for the Aurora and going up to a base price of $5,149 for the ALX CrossfireX. This shows that there are PC users who want a no holds barred computer that costs thousands of dollars (just to play video games). That is a lot of dough to spend for playing video games, but each to his own.
Since Apple isn't a gaming company, we'll have to look at another high performance computer market for our comparison, the workstation. These are mostly for business or the prosumer market. These expensive computers are not sold for playing games. This market is focused on graphic design and/or video work that demand a lot of computing power. As a business computer, time is money, and it pays to buy the faster model to get more work done. Here the dollar signs are large whether you buy from Apple, Dell or HP. How large is the question.
In 1981, when I bought my first computer, the Apple II was all the rage. It was also about $600 more than the computer I ended up buying, and had a crappier processor than the one I bought.
In 1984 the Mac came out and looked very sweet. It was also priced far outside of my budget. It also had fake multitasking, while my cheap Color Computer had real multitasking.
In the late 80s, the Mac II tempted me, because you could finally add new cards to a Mac. It was also $4000, compared to the Amiga's $2000 for very similar hardware. No sale.
In the early 90s, Commodore bit the dust, so I looked for a new platform. Apple was still twice the price of comparable PC hardware, and PCs offered an open architecture that let me build and upgrade them at my whim.
There's never been a compelling reason for me to switch. The Mac has no exclusive apps that I need or want. iTunes is one of the most frustrating programs I've used in a long, long time. The hardware architecture is still closed. Apple clings to the "we're a computer company" line that perpetuates that business model. The OS is nice, but I can get BSD for free and run it on cheap hardware.
Folks keep saying the Mac "just works", but my PCs have always "just worked". And when a component fails, from motherboard to power supply to video card, I just drive over to Fry's and pick up a replacement.
And then there are those ads. The smug, unkempt 20-something vs the much funnier nebbish. They'd stand a better chance of swaying me if they swapped actors.
The trouble is, the PC's fail much more than Macs, and the virius bugs get to them far more. Sure PC's can be great, but the problems are also more likely. Customer satisfaction is higher with Macs for a reason.
Customers vary. This customer could never be satisfied paying more for a closed architecture.