Windows 8

Wolf

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Microsoft: Windows 8 Won't Require a New PC | PCWorld Business Center

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz1LbukC9dc]YouTube - ‪COMPUTEX: Microsoft introduces Windows 8‬‏[/ame]

Having learned its lesson the hard way with Windows Vista, Microsoft offered assurances Thursday that its upcoming Windows 8 operating system won't require users to buy a new PC.
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"We've extended the trend we started with Windows 7, of keeping our system requirements either flat or reducing them over time. So Windows 8 will be able to run on a wide range of machines because it will have the same system requirements or lower" as Windows 7, said Michael Angiulo, the Microsoft executive who showed the new software at a press event in Taipei on Thursday.

"Another thing we did is build intelligence into Windows 8 to adapt the user interface based on what hardware you have. So whether you're upgrading or buying a new PC, Windows will adapt itself for your hardware," he said.

The new OS is designed to be touch-enabled, so people without touch screens obviously won't get all the benefits of the new OS. It will also work with a wider variety of sensors for detecting things like motion and proximity, and those sensors will not be present in existing PCs.

But Angiulo said the new interface, which has large colored icons and resembles Windows Phone 7, can still be navigated smoothly using a mouse and a keyboard. The page up and page down buttons can move through the application tiles on the screen, a mouse click will open applications, and the Windows shortcut key on a keyboard will take users back to the desktop.

To prove the point he showed Windows 8 running on a handful of existing PCs, including a Samsung Series 9 laptop and an L Series Sony Vaio.

"When you're reimagining a system that a billion people around the world use it's a big responsibility," Angiulo said. "Windows 8 is for hundreds of millions of computers with all different screen sizes, whether they're touch-enabled or not. Windows 8 is an upgrade for the entire ecosystem of PCs."

It's an important message for Microsoft to get across. If people believe they need to buy a new PC to run Windows 8 it would slow the transition to the new OS and hurt Microsoft's business.

Still, there are features in Windows 8 that won't work with existing hardware, and Microsoft is being more prescriptive than usual about how hardware makers should design their PCs for the new OS.

The optimal screen will have 16:9 aspect ratio and minimum resolution of 1366 by 768 pixels, Angiulo said. A 1024x768 display will also be able to show the new interface, he said. But a netbook with a low-resolution screen will have to switch to the standard desktop mode, he said.

Microsoft learned its lesson about system requirements with Vista. Many PCs in use at the time wouldn't run the OS properly. People reported a lousy experience with the software and it became about the most unpopular OS in Microsoft's history. The company will be keen not to let that happen again.
 

DAB

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The biggest thing MS needs to learn is how to market and price their OS. The pricing they come up with doesn't give anyone incentive to upgrade. I am already hearing OS-X Lion pricing at $29 for the upgrade and $129 for the full version including iWorks. MS will want $300 for full version of Windows for the Ultimate.

I will admit this new version of Windows is finally going in the right direction! If they don't get touch to work right on this version, they are going to be screwed going forward.
 

hyson

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This is MS cheating. They're not really developing anything "new" per se. They're taking the app world and manipulating the UI and building it around accessing the apps.

Zzzzz...
 

blyons200

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The biggest thing MS needs to learn is how to market and price their OS. The pricing they come up with doesn't give anyone incentive to upgrade. I am already hearing OS-X Lion pricing at $29 for the upgrade and $129 for the full version including iWorks. MS will want $300 for full version of Windows for the Ultimate.

I will admit this new version of Windows is finally going in the right direction! If they don't get touch to work right on this version, they are going to be screwed going forward.

These Apples things are just upgrades that come out every few months. It's not a full operatiing system as Apple will not sell a full version of OS 10.X at all. Although OS10.X comes with your Apple, you are paying for it. Then you pay extra money every few months for an upgrade. MS put out a whole new OS every few years, a full version that has to be backwards compatable with every peripheral built since 1985. It can be installed on any PC you want though. And all the updates are free. (Mostly bug fixes and security stuff)
 

ProperModulation

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These Apples things are just upgrades that come out every few months. It's not a full operatiing system as Apple will not sell a full version of OS 10.X at all. Although OS10.X comes with your Apple, you are paying for it. Then you pay extra money every few months for an upgrade. MS put out a whole new OS every few years, a full version that has to be backwards compatable with every peripheral built since 1985. It can be installed on any PC you want though. And all the updates are free. (Mostly bug fixes and security stuff)

plus I upgraded three PCs to Win7 for less than $50 each. not a bad deal at all (and probably the big reason I eventually did it).
 

DAB

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These Apples things are just upgrades that come out every few months. It's not a full operatiing system as Apple will not sell a full version of OS 10.X at all. Although OS10.X comes with your Apple, you are paying for it. Then you pay extra money every few months for an upgrade. MS put out a whole new OS every few years, a full version that has to be backwards compatable with every peripheral built since 1985. It can be installed on any PC you want though. And all the updates are free. (Mostly bug fixes and security stuff)

Honestly, you believe all that?

Apple has never come out with upgrades every few months, so that is not true. Also the fact is that Apple doesn't technically sell upgrades disc. Every disc you get IS the full version of the OS. Have you ever tried to install a MS upgrade CD/DVD to do a full install? No can do unless you have a full version key. Apple doesn't use keys and doesn't require activation.

Also not true is that MS Win 7 supports all peripherals from 1995, because I've got some older stuff from early 2000's that won't work with it.

I have purchased an OS-X upgrade for a whopping $29 and what I got was new functionality and support for newer hardware, which could be installed as an upgrade or used as a full clean install. Win 7 was finally a fast, reliable OS as compared to Vista, but those should be standard things of any OS. A new OS simply brings you an improved GUI, functionality and new hardware support and in MS cause lot of security enhancements. What more does MS REALLY give you for $300 again? Oh backwards compatibility that often times doesn't even work.

None of these OS's are perfect believe me, but you are way off the mark unless I am misunderstanding you. It seems to me that both of these guys simply offer upgrades over their previous versions in reality. Just one charges $29 for an upgrade that you can use as a full version and one charges $149 for an upgrade (regular pricing) that is just an upgrade or $300 for a full version. If you were lucky you may have gotten a family pack, but that was limited, not something they planned to keep on the market.

Don't get me wrong I am not knocking Windows here, I use it every day just like I use my Mac at home everyday. But the point I was making is that MS is screwing end users with their crazy pricing. I hope MS does the family pack again with Win 8, because their regular pricing is absolutely ridiculous. I think for Windows $50 is a reasonable amount to pay.

By the way you can do a clean install with a MS upgrade CD/DVD, but not with the keycode that came with it. I've had it install, then when you enter that key code it will tell you that the code you use is for an upgrade. LOL You can install your original OS and then run the upgrade using that key code. I recently tried to do a clean install of an old vista machine. With older versions of Windows if you could prove you own a copy by inserting the cd/dvd it would let you do the clean install. Nope, I had to install a base install of Vista then do an upgrade. Just for reference I've never had to do that with OS-X and all I have are upgrade CD's. I purchased SSD drives for both my Mac Mini and MacBook Pro, did a clean install using that upgrade CD $29. ;)
 
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DAB

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plus I upgraded three PCs to Win7 for less than $50 each. not a bad deal at all (and probably the big reason I eventually did it).

Yeah they initially did the family pack, then pulled it. Sales tanked, so they reintroduced it because no one was upgrading at their rip off prices. You'd think they would learn something from it. Bless all those souls that MS screwed at this ridiculous prices for upgrade and GOD help anyone foolish enough to buy a full version.
 

ProperModulation

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Have you ever tried to install a MS upgrade CD/DVD to do a full install? No can do unless you have a full version key. Apple doesn't use keys and doesn't require activation.

Not entirely true. Every Windows disc is a full version, and can be used to perform a full install. The upgrade discs can also be used to upgrade an existing installation, although I would never go that route myself. I've used many an upgrade disc to do a full clean install of many versions of Windows. The old ones used to ask for the installation media from an old version of windows (after all, you did pay a reduced price for an upgrade vs. full disc) but even my old Win3.11 install floppy or old Win95 CD would get you past that check. Win7 upgrade changed in that it looks for a version of windows on the hard drive. Once it finds any old version it lets you activate your upgrade or full install (whichver you chose to do). There are also easy hacks to get you around this for those who want to use an upgrade disc on a bare hard drive. I didn't try the hacks as I installed it only on machines with older versions of Windows. However, a key is a key. The only difference in keys that I have seen with Windows is OEM versus retail. Meaning that you can't install an off the shelf version of windows and try to activate with the key printed on your Dell. You'd need to install a Dell OEM disc for that to work. Sort of a pain, but it's really just keeping you aligned with the level of license that you purchased.

That's not much different from Apple moving towards only offering their new OS through the Mac App Store as I read yesterday. You can't blame a software company for trying to combat piracy. Especially with Windows which gets pirated all over the world every day. And you can't come down on them for releasing update patches on a regular schedule when the only alternative is to let people deal with vulnerabilities after they have been found. If you don't want to reboot every month, windows will never force you to install any patches. You can run with the version from the DVD forever if you wish (not a great idea). In another thread you praised Apple for releasing a patch for the recently circulated Mac Defender virus, so I would think that train of thought would extend to praise for MS fixing vulnerabilities as they are exposed.
 

memebag

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What more does MS REALLY give you for $300 again?

An OS. Apple won't sell me an OS, at least not one I can use. I would have to pay $700 or more for Apple hardware if I wanted to run Apple's OS. Microsoft will let me run their OS on any hardware I can get my hands on.

Thanks, Microsoft!
 

DAB

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Not entirely true. Every Windows disc is a full version, and can be used to perform a full install. Sort of a pain, but it's really just keeping you aligned with the level of license that you purchased.

That's not much different from Apple moving towards only offering their new OS through the Mac App Store as I read yesterday. In another thread you praised Apple for releasing a patch for the recently circulated Mac Defender virus, so I would think that train of thought would extend to praise for MS fixing vulnerabilities as they are exposed.
'

Yes, I clarified that in my response that you can do a full install, but it is indeed a pain in the ass.

I have no issues with MS combating piracy the OS is theirs and they have every right to protect it. No argument from me!

Well there is a bit of a difference between what Apple released and what MS constantly releases. Apple released a patch to the OS, that lets them push updates automatically to deal with future issues such as mac defender. I don't have to do a thing and it doesn't require a reboot. MS on the flip side while they make them available and the OS will even auto download them sometimes the number of them is crazy. I appreciate them doing what they do, but there are days when it seems pretty freaking ridiculous that there are that many security issues. Then again in reality when you look at the number of machines running Windows vs OS-X you clearly see which one gives these hackers more bang for the buck! hehehe MS is almost a victim of their own success.


An OS. Apple won't sell me an OS, at least not one I can use. I would have to pay $700 or more for Apple hardware if I wanted to run Apple's OS. Microsoft will let me run their OS on any hardware I can get my hands on.

Thanks, Microsoft!

It's a good point for the rare few such as yourself I can see where that would be a really big deal, but I am still not taking MS shaft up my ASS at $300 a pop. I am perfectly content with my Apple Hardware and OS that by the way I paid $550. LOL
 

memebag

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It's a good point for the rare few such as yourself I can see where that would be a really big deal, but I am still not taking MS shaft up my ASS at $300 a pop. I am perfectly content with my Apple Hardware and OS that by the way I paid $550. LOL

Apple's web site lists the cheapest new Mac at $699.

I paid $100 for Windows 7 Home Premium.
 

DAB

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Apple's web site lists the cheapest new Mac at $699.

I paid $100 for Windows 7 Home Premium.

You just got to know where to shop, just like you knew where to shop for that cheap version of Windows 7 Home Premium. But you won't go into Walmart, Sam's Club, Best Buy, Costco's and buy Windows 7 Home Premium for $100.
 

Wolf

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I got Windows 7 Home Premium from my college, they must got some kind of deal or something. I only had to pay $50 to upgrade.
 

blyons200

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Honestly, you believe all that?

Apple has never come out with upgrades every few months, so that is not true. Also the fact is that Apple doesn't technically sell upgrades disc. Every disc you get IS the full version of the OS. Have you ever tried to install a MS upgrade CD/DVD to do a full install? No can do unless you have a full version key. Apple doesn't use keys and doesn't require activation.

Also not true is that MS Win 7 supports all peripherals from 1995, because I've got some older stuff from early 2000's that won't work with it.

I have purchased an OS-X upgrade for a whopping $29 and what I got was new functionality and support for newer hardware, which could be installed as an upgrade or used as a full clean install. Win 7 was finally a fast, reliable OS as compared to Vista, but those should be standard things of any OS. A new OS simply brings you an improved GUI, functionality and new hardware support and in MS cause lot of security enhancements. What more does MS REALLY give you for $300 again? Oh backwards compatibility that often times doesn't even work.

None of these OS's are perfect believe me, but you are way off the mark unless I am misunderstanding you. It seems to me that both of these guys simply offer upgrades over their previous versions in reality. Just one charges $29 for an upgrade that you can use as a full version and one charges $149 for an upgrade (regular pricing) that is just an upgrade or $300 for a full version. If you were lucky you may have gotten a family pack, but that was limited, not something they planned to keep on the market.

Don't get me wrong I am not knocking Windows here, I use it every day just like I use my Mac at home everyday. But the point I was making is that MS is screwing end users with their crazy pricing. I hope MS does the family pack again with Win 8, because their regular pricing is absolutely ridiculous. I think for Windows $50 is a reasonable amount to pay.

By the way you can do a clean install with a MS upgrade CD/DVD, but not with the keycode that came with it. I've had it install, then when you enter that key code it will tell you that the code you use is for an upgrade. LOL You can install your original OS and then run the upgrade using that key code. I recently tried to do a clean install of an old vista machine. With older versions of Windows if you could prove you own a copy by inserting the cd/dvd it would let you do the clean install. Nope, I had to install a base install of Vista then do an upgrade. Just for reference I've never had to do that with OS-X and all I have are upgrade CD's. I purchased SSD drives for both my Mac Mini and MacBook Pro, did a clean install using that upgrade CD $29. ;)

Ok I exaggerated a bit by saying you upgraded every few months, but 7 upgrades in 10 years is still a lot. And I was saying you can't buy OS10.X and put it on any old PC you want. Apple does not sell OS10 in stores. You even said that yourself, so I don't see how I was mistaken on saying that.
 

DAB

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Ok I exaggerated a bit by saying you upgraded every few months, but 7 upgrades in 10 years is still a lot. And I was saying you can't buy OS10.X and put it on any old PC you want. Apple does not sell OS10 in stores. You even said that yourself, so I don't see how I was mistaken on saying that.

Well 7 upgrades in 10 years maybe a lot, but one would say that perhaps MS has taken far too long to upgrade after some of their releases (ME and Vista) Its all a matter of opinion! Honestly, I don't think how many version of an OS there have been is relevant, because I could have purchased all of Apple's releases and still saved money off a single full version of Windows.

Really, you can't buy OS-X in stores? That seems strange since I just seen it in Best Buy yesterday! OS-X - BestBuy

If what you are saying is you can't install it on any hardware except Apple that is true and by design, I can live with that for $29 for a CD that offers me the ability to upgrade or do a full clean install. I am not interested in running it on anything but Mac hardware.
 
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memebag

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You just got to know where to shop, just like you knew where to shop for that cheap version of Windows 7 Home Premium. But you won't go into Walmart, Sam's Club, Best Buy, Costco's and buy Windows 7 Home Premium for $100.

I bought it at Amazon. I guess I had to know Amazon existed, but I'm pretty sure most people know that by now.
 

DAB

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I bought it at Amazon. I guess I had to know Amazon existed, but I'm pretty sure most people know that by now.

Yeah, but the point is you cannot walk into a box store without paying MS suggested retail price. One can find deals if they look, just like I did with my Mac. Does not change the fact that Microshaft is screwing folks at there retail pricing.
Posted via Mobile Device
 

memebag

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Yeah, but the point is you cannot walk into a box store without paying MS suggested retail price. One can find deals if they look, just like I did with my Mac. Does not change the fact that Microshaft is screwing folks at there retail pricing.
Posted via Mobile Device

I paid the suggested retail price. That's what everyone charges for the OEM version. You can walk into Fry's (a box store) and buy it.

You can't seriously claim Microsoft is screwing customers on price while defending Apple and what they charge for Mac hardware. I refuse to believe it.
 

DAB

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I paid the suggested retail price. That's what everyone charges for the OEM version. You can walk into Fry's (a box store) and buy it.

You can't seriously claim Microsoft is screwing customers on price while defending Apple and what they charge for Mac hardware. I refuse to believe it.

I have never defended what Apple charges for their hardware, I simply have always said one has to make the choice that best fits their needs and for me the cost is worth the price of admission.

This whole side conversation was about what MS charges for Windows vs Apple pricing of OS-X. It is my contention that MS prices for their retail versions of Windows is too damn high. I've seen you skirt the issue by saying, oh but you can buy an OEM version. Right like the average Joe even knows about their being an OEM version. Also lets not forget that MS actually requires retailers that sell OEM to sell it with hardware, however most of those retailers ignore that requirement.

My point is exactly the same as it was when this conversation was started. MS for one sucks at marketing and 2, they over price their OS. You can disagree, you can skirt the issue, you can say that Apple OS-X won't run on other hardware.. but the fact still remains!

You take their family pack, they had absolutely ZERO intent to bring that back. You know why they did? Cause their freaking sales were tanking and they did that to saves their asses and low and behold it worked. That tells me that for an upgrade MS needs to come in at about $49 and not that ridiculous $149 for a single copy that you can't even use to do a clean install without jumping through freaking hoops.