When is illegal illegal?

dpkimmel2001

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Nov 6, 2008
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#48 - When is illegal illegal?

Seriously, if what I am reading is true, why is the #48 not facing a penalty today? The word is that #48 was outside of the tolerance for the body being off of the center line of the car. The #5 car was just within the tolerance, #48 outside tolerance. Get ready for the fhit to hit the san!

From Jayski.....

Word circulated Wednesday night that NASCAR had found issues with the #48 Chevy as well as the #5 Chevy during inspection at the Research and Development Center in Concord, N.C. The two Hendrick Motorsports teams currently sit atop the points standings. The buzz within the NASCAR community suggests that the offset on the tail, which helps the rear of the car stick to the ground instead of spinning out, of the #5 Kellogg's Chevy just made the tolerance. NASCAR allows a tolerance of 0.070 of an inch for the body off of the center line of the car. Suffice it to say, JJ's #48 car didn't make it. But by how much? NASCAR claims it was .006 over the tolerance. That's about the thickness of two sheets of copier paper. Others in the garage hint at a charitable disposition on the part of the sanctioning body.
 
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Snoozer

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Oct 13, 2008
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Canada Eh!
I just read that as well. If the #48 is past then, yes based on past fines and penalties with the COT against other teams then, yes. The 48 should get hit.
As for the 5, they were close. Who cares? isn't the point to get as close as you can without going over? I don't see the big deal there.
 

dpkimmel2001

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I agree if what was printed is true. #5 legal, #48, big fine & points are in order. :yesshake:
 

mghtx

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How far over was Kyle's car after the first chase race? How far over the speed limit was JPM? Is over the "limit" really that? We could go on and on. Who was that driver fined for an illegal engine that was barely over the "limit"?

Will we hear the usual "Hey, it was just BARELY over the limit. It's not a big deal".

If this is true, will the host on Sirius talk about it? Will the TV folks talk about it? Will they go after nascar about this? The media made a splash of Tony comparing nascar to WWE, and did nothing about Jr. doing the same thing.

IF.......IF.....this is true.....let's just sit back and watch.

But until this is made "official".......I won't believe this story. We've been sucker-punched too many times.
 

dpkimmel2001

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We have to get through the endless banter on last nights TV shows, dinners, travel plans, etc...... Eventually we'll get to hear some NASCAR news.
 

9FNZ

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Oct 18, 2008
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We have to get through the endless banter on last nights TV shows, dinners, travel plans, etc...... Eventually we'll get to hear some NASCAR news.

I would much rather listen to their morning banter than listen to MOST callers, if they banter for 15-20 minutes the way i figure it's about 10-15 less callers i have to listen too. Why is it all truck drivers that call in always have to tell you their a truck driver? (I don't care get to your point) if their is one. Just Sayin...
 
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mghtx

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We have to get through the endless banter on last nights TV shows, dinners, travel plans, etc...... Eventually we'll get to hear some NASCAR news.

I enjoyed that when Poole was still with us....he just had a way of making it fun. Nothing against the show now.

However, I need to thank TMD...because now I'm going over to Mad Dog Radio in the mornings and listening to Gary Williams. ;)
 

semipenguin

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NaSCAR doesn't rule on intentions as per Moody, right? :scratch:

But wait....After the Twin 150s a few years ago, the 24 car was found to be too low. they were not penelized points or money but had to start the race at the back of the field.

NaSCAR said a part that was incorrectly put on the car failed & caused the car to be too low. They also said they didn't believe it was the INTENT of the team to have the part break or give the 24 an advantage, even though they won the race :right:

I think its another case of perception. What we as fans perceive as a favoritisim toward one team & NaSCAR ability to bend those rule for that team.

HMS has always been able to work in a gray area where other teams have not. It's hard to say what's right or wrong from a fans perspective. It just smacks hard of favoritism :worried:
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mghtx

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Oct 23, 2008
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Yeah, I'd have to say that I could do without MOST callers. If the host is good at filling time then I'd rather listen to the host. But there aren't a lot of host that can really do that.

(again, I call for an overnight LIVE call-in show for the truckers)

....
 

mghtx

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I really wish somebody would write a book on this topic of consisitentcy of fines, penalties, cautions, etc. With examples of dates and results. Like what was pointed out by Semi.

I'd do it if I had the time and money. Like if I were filthy stinkin' rich like Michael Moore (who hasn't benifited by the capitalistic system of America BTW)

....
 

dpkimmel2001

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Am I reading something different here than everyone else? What I read states that #5 was within tolerance. There #48 was outside tolerance. What am I missing here. Maybe I am simply overreacting but the way I read it is that the #5 was within the rules, albeit on the edge. The #48 was outside the rules, period. If this is the case a fine and penalty are in order.

As far as the morning banter, my only point was that I though this topic was a big story today and though it should be talked about. It wasn't even mentioned until 7:51AM. Yes, I kept track. I thought perhaps they could forgo the 'I'm standing up & pulling your pants down routine' for a few minutes to talk about this story. That's all.
 

semipenguin

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I've all but stopped listening to 128. With the exception of the 1st hr of Speedway & the races themselves (and sometimes The Front Stretch).

TMD is ok, but it's just not the same without David Poole.

And any NaSCAR news I want will be talked about during the 1st hr of Speedway.

I can use my Sprint phone to get other new, or the internet, or here.

I wish Sirius would offer a Motorsports show on one of the other channels that's not run by MRN or is hosted by anyone who works for ISC :worried:
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mghtx

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I wish Sirius would offer a Motorsports show on one of the other channels that's not run by MRN or is hosted by anyone who works for ISC

Preach it brother!

And any NaSCAR news I want will be talked about during the 1st hr of Speedway.

Amazing how they can do it within ONE hour. :rolleyes:
 

mghtx

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We need a Mad Dog Race Fan channel. This could be streamed on the internet.
 

semipenguin

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Amazing how they can do it within ONE hour. :rolleyes:

As much as I don't like Ray Evernham, I enjoy listening to him every Tuesday at 6pm East. Moody should ask him how he got away with everything he did over at HMS. Talk about someone who could work in the gray :bigthumbup:
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mghtx

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Moody should ask him how he got away with everything he did over at HMS.

Yeah, but you won't get anything juicy from him. He's still "in the loop".

I'm still flat-out amazed no insiders have "talked" yet. I've read and heard little tid-bits from time to time but that's all.
 

dpkimmel2001

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Hendrick avoids penalty despite inspection issue

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - Chad Knaus is the top "innovator" in NASCAR racing.

Among some racers, that's a badge of honor. Among others, it's just a polite way of saying the three-time Sprint Cup champion crew chief has never met a rule he couldn't "interpret."

Consider this week's hullabaloo following the AAA 400 at Dover.

Word circulated Wednesday night that NASCAR had found issues with Knaus' No. 48 Chevrolet (as well as Mark Martin's No. 5 car) during inspection at the Research and Development Center in Concord, N.C. The two Hendrick Motorsports teams currently sit atop the points standings.

Knaus getting the hairy eyeball from NASCAR? Color us unsurprised. After all, this is the same "Magician" who has received fines from NASCAR ranging from a slap on the wrist for using inappropriate language, to four weeks at the house after officials discovered an unapproved template modification to the rear window area for the 2006 Daytona 500, to the gonzo six-week vacation after the 2007 Sonoma race when the front fender was modified outside of NASCAR's rulebook.

Needless to say, cell phones lit up over this latest "interpretation."

The buzz within the NASCAR community suggests that the offset on the tail, which helps the rear of the car stick to the ground instead of spinning out, of the No. 5 Kellogg's Chevrolet just made the tolerance. Alan Gustafson, pit boss for the No. 5, has been popped just once — at Talladega in 2005 for an unapproved right-side window. Compared to Knaus, Gustafson is Mr. Clean.

But that No. 48 Lowe's Chevrolet ... let's see. There's no doubt Jimmie Johnson had the dominant car at Dover. He led three times for a total of 271 laps and spanked teammate Martin at the finish line by nearly two seconds.

NASCAR allows a tolerance of 0.070 of an inch for the body off of the center line of the car. Suffice it to say, JJ's car didn't make it. But by how much? NASCAR claims it was .006 over the tolerance. That's about the thickness of two sheets of copier paper. Others in the garage hint at a charitable disposition on the part of the sanctioning body.

"You can get through inspection with quite a lot," said a crew chief who spoke on the condition of anonymity. "You can skew the grid. Back at the tech center is a whole different deal. You're busted. There's no way around it. So you just don't do it. It just seems weird that two cars from Hendrick Motorsports were questionable. If it had been me, I would have been suspended for six weeks."

But Knaus escapes with a warning.

So I asked a few crew chiefs to explain just how much of an advantage would a modification of this nature be to the cars. One sage offered this description:

"We put the bodies on the old cars with the tail to the right because we discovered in the wind tunnel that the more yaw that was in the body the more (rear side-force and rear) downforce it made. Bill France Jr., hated how they looked so he made sure the COT rules were more restrictive. That's when we came with the rear-end housings that put the car in yaw due to rear steer.

"As a result ... NASCAR came up with inspection gauges that limit what you can do with the housing. It would appear that these guys got a little enthusiastic with the body because we are now restricted with the rear housing and how much we are limited by NASCAR on total yaw."

So how did NASCAR view the situation with the Hendrick cars?

"The 48 and 5 were brought back to the (Research and Development Center)," according to a NASCAR statement. "We've been doing this since the inception of the new car as a part of routine post-race inspection. We bring the winner and a random pick back to the R&D Center after each event.

"While both cars passed postrace inspection, we informed the 48 and 5 they were extremely close on some of the tolerances."

So what is "close"? Who knows? What happens in the NASCAR R&D Center has a tendency to stay in the NASCAR R&D Center — until loose lips start stirring ... stuff.
 

dpkimmel2001

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Jeff Hammond drank the Kool-Aid! :yesshake:

Let's set the facts straight first. All the numbers flying around are insignificant because both cars passed inspection, and that's coming directly from NASCAR. Simply put, both teams took it to the very max, and they won't be bringing it back like that again.

Chad Knaus understands there is no tolerance, and the fact that both cars had the same issue leads me to believe that somebody in the construction part of the body got a little too creative or misread something. With the title fight being so tight, and those two cars in the thick of it, they are not likely to flirt with the boundaries because a 100-point penalty or worse at this point would end their championship bid.

NASCAR must've been satisfied that was not the case. They have shown me that they have no problem busting somebody, so I don't think this is much of an issue.

This probably won't be the only time we hear about something like this. If you go from team shop to team shop, their tolerances are probably all off a little bit compared to NASCAR's by this time of the year. I wonder how often teams go back to recalibrate their stuff and make it standard and consistent with NASCAR's? These teams build so many cars nowadays, it may be time for teams to check their stuff out again.

— Jeff Hammond, FOXSports.com