New Radios

dhartsoc

Member
Jan 14, 2009
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Are there ever going to be any new radios? Heck of a way to run a business. No development money, no third-party interest, no future?

I love my Sirius radio but if my current receiver goes out there is nothing out there I would want to buy.

What's up?
 
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DAB

Mod Emeritus
Oct 9, 2008
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Seems to me like going forward you'll see them pushing new radios to the XM side. The reason for this is 2 fold, I think right now they feel they can get that extra $4.00 per month for the BOS if you subscribe to the XM side. Plus once again my speculation only that they will eventually move the full spectrum to the XM side, but that will be a long time down the road. But if they push everything that way for the next several years, there will be few left on the Sirius side for them to have to convert over later.
 

dhartsoc

Member
Jan 14, 2009
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DAB,

What would be the reason for moving all the spectrum to the XM side? The idea does not appeal to me at all. Or I guess, what do you mean by the full spectrum? We may have different interpretations of that.

Until now I have been reasonably neutral on the XM-Sirius merger. Now I am feeling some bad vibes.

Dana

Seems to me like going forward you'll see them pushing new radios to the XM side. The reason for this is 2 fold, I think right now they feel they can get that extra $4.00 per month for the BOS if you subscribe to the XM side. Plus once again my speculation only that they will eventually move the full spectrum to the XM side, but that will be a long time down the road. But if they push everything that way for the next several years, there will be few left on the Sirius side for them to have to convert over later.
 

Vargas

Molon Labe!
Oct 16, 2008
3,426
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Western, PA
Are there ever going to be any new radios? Heck of a way to run a business. No development money, no third-party interest, no future?

I love my Sirius radio but if my current receiver goes out there is nothing out there I would want to buy.

What's up?

What radio do you currently own?

I highly recommend the SL2.
 

DAB

Mod Emeritus
Oct 9, 2008
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DAB,

What would be the reason for moving all the spectrum to the XM side? The idea does not appeal to me at all. Or I guess, what do you mean by the full spectrum? We may have different interpretations of that.

Until now I have been reasonably neutral on the XM-Sirius merger. Now I am feeling some bad vibes.

Dana

It is pretty simple Dana long term it is not economically wise to run two totally separate systems. They have to for a certain amount of years to satisify their agreement with the FCC. However, once they reach that treshold they can and will combine ALL the spectrum under a single system. The part about it being the XM side is pure speculation on my part based on many things that I am seeing. I admit I could be wrong. However, what I am not wrong about is that at some point they will combine the full spectrum. Some think that because Sirius has better reception with the rolving sats over Cananda that it will actually be Sirius side. It will all unfold over time. If we start seeing them dropping Sirius OEM in favor of XM then I think the writting is on the wall. I've not seen that yet. I have seen new radios more on the XM side, now just this weekend the combined the Internet Radio under xm domain (that could mean nothing). Honestly, we'll have to wait and see!
 

Kryptonite

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2008
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Seems to me like going forward you'll see them pushing new radios to the XM side. The reason for this is 2 fold, I think right now they feel they can get that extra $4.00 per month for the BOS if you subscribe to the XM side. Plus once again my speculation only that they will eventually move the full spectrum to the XM side, but that will be a long time down the road. But if they push everything that way for the next several years, there will be few left on the Sirius side for them to have to convert over later.

So, there may be a day when Sirius subscribers would be forced to "switch over" to radios based on XM technology.

Let's hope that's AFTER they merge the billing systems.
 

DAB

Mod Emeritus
Oct 9, 2008
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So, there may be a day when Sirius subscribers would be forced to "switch over" to radios based on XM technology.

Let's hope that's AFTER they merge the billing systems.

If they actually combine all the spectrum under the XM side YES! My thinking is if you keep creating better radios for the XM side and move all your OEM's to XM it will happen naturally over time and when they time actual does come the number of subscribers on the Sirius side would be small enough that they could subsidize them to move over to the XM side.

It has been reported they are working on merging the billing systems now, but that is really just a rumor. It would not surprise me to see them not do this until they do combine the spectrum. But who know it may happen sooner rather than later. Only if it is an economical move will they do it.
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

Sherbet is NOT and NEVER WILL BE ice cream.
Oct 11, 2008
21,611
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Toronto, ON
Seems to me like going forward you'll see them pushing new radios to the XM side. The reason for this is 2 fold, I think right now they feel they can get that extra $4.00 per month for the BOS if you subscribe to the XM side. Plus once again my speculation only that they will eventually move the full spectrum to the XM side, but that will be a long time down the road. But if they push everything that way for the next several years, there will be few left on the Sirius side for them to have to convert over later.

I think they will but right now you can buy a new 2010 car with Sirius OEM radios. I would suspect that one would have to give about 10 years to let the hardware die to minimize the impact of dropping one spectrum. Also, XM radios are currently limited to 255 channels and probably bandwith restrictions. You would need to offer radios that overcome this.

I am not saying this can't or shouldn't be done ... but it requires forethought and planning both lacking from Sirius XM IMHO.

And since you asked (well, you didn't but I know you are just dying to know!) the correct approach would be:

1. Stop producing Sirius OEM radios. This takes 3 years from my understanding so in 2013 ... XM only OEM radios.
2. Offer the most popular Sirius radios with XM chipsets ... a Stilletto 3 for example except with XM rather than Sirius.
3. Stop producing new Sirius hardware. Only hardware replacements.
4. Allow transfers of lifetime subscribers from Sirius to XM (allow for $75 fee etc.).
5. Allow XM radios to be family planned off of Sirius accounts (but not visa versa).
6. Allow for easy transfers from Sirius to XM (without the transfer fee for example).
7. At some point 5 years from now, disallow new Sirius subscribers, period.
8. 10 years after 1 has taken effect .... turn off Sirius. At this point they would likely have to have a hardware exchange or credit program. The smaller this subscriber base is at this point, the better.

DAB,

What would be the reason for moving all the spectrum to the XM side? The idea does not appeal to me at all. Or I guess, what do you mean by the full spectrum? We may have different interpretations of that.

Until now I have been reasonably neutral on the XM-Sirius merger. Now I am feeling some bad vibes.

Dana

In 10 years, you would have one radio with 2ce as many channels or better quality or both. I don't think its anything to get scared about. They are not going to piss off 10 million subs for the heck of it. But in 6 years ... you may have to get an XM radio as a replacement for your broken Sirius radio.
 

no1hedberg

Member
Oct 13, 2008
335
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West Virginia
The obvious short term solution it to stop making two separate lines of radios, and start making one line of radios, that are interoperable. Same radios, same accessories, same docks. Going forward, no one gets left out, no matter which direction they choose as far as combining the spectrum.
 

blazer_5

New Member
Feb 3, 2009
8
1
3
I just saw the MiRGE on the Sirius web site.

Enjoy everything SIRIUS XM has to offer with the first radio to get EVERY channel of both SIRIUS and XM*.

 

dhartsoc

Member
Jan 14, 2009
38
1
8
I did not think it was technically possible to move the entire spectrum to one system. It depends on the capability of the transmitters on the satellites.

I greatly prefer the Sirius satellite configuration. That may be partly because I live in Iowa, which seems to be a nice sweet spot for satellite reception.
 

DAB

Mod Emeritus
Oct 9, 2008
9,434
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The obvious short term solution it to stop making two separate lines of radios, and start making one line of radios, that are interoperable. Same radios, same accessories, same docks. Going forward, no one gets left out, no matter which direction they choose as far as combining the spectrum.

I agree this makes more sense than anything, but having radios with both chipsets raises the price. But I think if that is ultimately the plan we'll see something like this unfold. I don't think looking at the 2010 models which have Sirius means much of anything right now. Most of that stuff has been on the drawing boards for 2 or more years. These OEM if they do move to XM will do so over time. I don't expect to see it happen probably starting till 2012 year models. All just speculation at this point but it will be interesting to see how it all pans out.
 

DAB

Mod Emeritus
Oct 9, 2008
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I did not think it was technically possible to move the entire spectrum to one system. It depends on the capability of the transmitters on the satellites.

I greatly prefer the Sirius satellite configuration. That may be partly because I live in Iowa, which seems to be a nice sweet spot for satellite reception.

Oh, I don't think moving the spectrum under one system will be a problem! Also by the time this may actually happen, they may have more new sats up by then. So, this is a non-issue to be concerned about. No way they will continue to operate 2 totally separate systems indefinitely, it just doesn't make financial or even logical sense, no matter how much we as end users want to HOLD ON!
 

TSS Taylor

DRC Fan
Oct 9, 2008
3,501
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Chicago, IL
www.tss-radio.com
I agree with those that want new radios, in particular on the SIRIUS Side. We at TSS are seeing a lot of people hold off on buying a new SIRIUS radio for various reasons.

Main reason is that many people don't want to spend more money to get XM with the Best of SIRIUS when they can get all they want with SIRIUS.

But some people also prefer the SIRIUS Satellite coverage depending on where they live.

And some are still loyal to the side they came in on. In particular Talk Radio listeners who were told over and over there side was the better side. An O&A or Howard fan for years heard how it was important to beat the other side. You can't just erase all that info in a year or two.

You CAN'T Push people to the XM side or SIRIUS side without alienating a lot of subscribers. So for now you gotta support hardware on both sides until the game plan is fully established.
 

DAB

Mod Emeritus
Oct 9, 2008
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You CAN'T Push people to the XM side or SIRIUS side without alienating a lot of subscribers. So for now you gotta support hardware on both sides until the game plan is fully established.

OH but you can push people you can do so by not putting out new hardware for one side or the other. If people really like sat radio at some point they will give in and go to the side that Sirius XM wants them too. People in general don't like change, but change is part of life. Most people I know you have to push them toward change sometimes kicking and screaming. Sure there are those that will hold on for dear life their nails firmly pushed in deep, but even those people will eventually make the change out of necessity.

I don't see them supporting both services long term it just isn't economically in their best interest for the ultimate long term plan of consolidating spectrum under a single service. Everyone keeps talking about a game plan, I think they have a game plan, but I think it is there intention to subtly make these changes over time. So you won't see anything significant happen right away, but overtime you'll be able to see it clearly! We also all know Sirius is not a very transparent company, they will NEVER just outright tell us what their intentions or plan is, we'll just have to see it unfold. It could be that they continue to use the Sirius side for their video business, though all indications are that this has not been very successful. This would require them to keep a certain amount of the spectrum on the Sirius side.

I understand all that alienating people stuff, but clearly that doesn't bother Sirius as their history indicates.

However, with all that said, I don't think anyone that wants to buy equipment today should be concerned about this. If there are Sirius Radios that you like and you want and need one buy it. Sirius will never just shut off service to those radios. So, there is no reason to not buy! I think the discussion we've had here is looking at long term what are they going to do. We are talking maybe 10 years from now. If you bought a Sirius Radio today are you really going to have that same radio in 10 years? Not likely! So, don't wait folks.. buy, buy! Don't let all this speculation stop you. This stuff is just a bunch of guesses and makes for some good and fun talk! I certainly wouldn't let this stuff stop me from buying a Sirius Radio today!
 

TSS Taylor

DRC Fan
Oct 9, 2008
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www.tss-radio.com
DAB the thing you seem to be missing is that a lot of people got into SIRIUS because of Howard Stern or other aspects of the Best of Package. The SIRIUS Best of Package is FAR more popular than the Best of XM Package.

Telling these people they simply need to switch sides for the companies sake is the biggest FU to the customers that came over for Stern or NFL. Telling them they have to pay more for the service that they are getting for $12.95 or $8.99 (addtl radio) is just ridiculous.

Getting 8-9 million people to switch over to a new radio is a huge undertaking. Clearly nobody is going to argue that.

But until Billing does get merged and people can get Howard Stern on an XM Radio for $12.95 or $8.99 for addtl radio it's important for SIRIUS XM IMO to focus on hardware for both sides. To carry a SIRIUS SkyDock or refresh the Stiletto 2 and not discontinue it. But taking away hardware options is a major inconvenience. The kind that really pushes people away from the service and from continuing to enjoy the services from SIRIUS XM.

SIRIUS and XM didn't build up their subscribers and audience by taking things away. It's very important to serve the audience UP TO the point where they can integrate them WITHOUT taking things away.

There is no sign that SIRIUS XM is trying to combine the spectrum. They just added a SIRIUS Satellite, they only have the Ala Carte service on the SIRIUS Side, so I don't think they are trying to merge things too much into the XM radios. This move of little hardware offerings especially on the SIRIUS side I don't think is part of some bigger plan.