Media Devices Impacting Sat Radio

Discussion in 'SiriusXM Soundwave Cafe' started by Schlep, Nov 23, 2008.

  1. Schlep

    Schlep Member

    I think most people would notice sound quality differences between codecs and bitrates, it's just that most people don't care. Especially when you're constantly exposed to bad sounding music. I made some samples below so you can hear the difference yourself, and if you can't, well that sucks. :p

    All samples were ripped into iTunes from the original CD using the individual compressions. They were then trimmed down in Garageband and exported as AIFF files.

    64 kbps AAC (roughly XM quality)
    128 kbps MP3 (what most people listen to)
    128 kbps AAC
    224 kbps AAC (bitrate/codec I use)

    You can't correct someone on an opinion. I've never once implied that my opinion is fact. I am not going to follow every single opinion I type on the internet with "in my opinion" or "imo."

    The difference between what you and I do in debating is that I lay down an opinion and then offer up evidence to back it up (debate). You lay down an opinion, and when I disagree with you, immediately you start looking for ways to attack me or say that it's just my opinion.

    Again, I don't think most people care. I know I don't care, because I use Apple devices for almost everything. For most users of the iTunes store, DRM is transparent.

    I thought I read somewhere that you're 49.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2008
  2. DAB

    DAB Mod Emeritus

    I can't disagree that people don't care, but I think the reason they don't care is beause the differences are so subtle they can't hear enough of a difference to care.

    You can continue to argue about this all you want, but my opinion isn't going to change and even when I concede your point, you will continue to argue. I think it's funny at this point.

    I have not one time attacked you, I've disagreed with your opinions and clearly stated why I do. But the bottom line is out of everything that you've said what isn't just your opinion? You can't support anything that you've said as a fact, no matter how much you believe that it is.

    Once again you don't think? But do you know and once again you've totally failed to respond to what I've asked. You just go on about how you think DRM is trasparent, but you fail to respond to the point that IF Apple gave us a choice which would we pick? You just can't do it can you?

    And your point is?
  3. Schlep

    Schlep Member

    I don't expect you to concede your point about not caring or not being able to tell the difference. There's no way that I could possibly be right on that. All that I can be right on is the fact that there is a difference in sound between each of those samples I posted. You may not be able to hear the difference, but I, and most audiophiles can.

    It's all just opinions. You just don't seem to be able to accept that, because every time I say something you make sure to come out and say "well yeah, but that's your opinion!" Of course it's my opinion, why wouldn't it be? The difference between randomly spouting opinions and debating is adding some facts into your argument in an attempt to convince people that your opinion is shared by others.

    Ok, then I'll concede even less ground. Most people don't care about DRM on their music, otherwise the iTunes Store wouldn't be the top retailer for music in the country. As far as not responding to your question, 1) I don't care even in the slightest, I don't know how to make it clearer than that, and 2) it's a situation that hasn't happened, so it doesn't matter.

    I shouldn't need to spell it out.
  4. DAB

    DAB Mod Emeritus

    Absolutely and finally you get it. Yet you kept arguing and arguing!

    I see because you don't care, suddenly you don't even have an opinion on the question. LOL Well I do and in my opinion it does matter because given a choice it is a no brainer people would pick the higher bitrate non-DRM file. No one seems likes DRM at least not on purpose no matter how transparent it maybe.

    Actually YES, I do think you need to spell it out. I want to see this!
  5. Schlep

    Schlep Member

    I never said they weren't opinions. You were the one who couldn't tell the difference between the two.

    It's like asking me chocolate or vanilla, with or without nutmeg, sunny side up or over easy. I don't care. Either one is fine, because either one works on my Mac, PC, iPods, and iPhone.

    "OH but that is right I am being extreme in my views, because you couldn't possible be wrong now could you? LOL "


  6. DAB

    DAB Mod Emeritus

    Still didn't answer the question and still justifying and rationalizing not doing so too. hehehe

    That is it? That is all you could come up with? That is really weak. The LOL at the end.. that was a joke! You really do need to lighten up! Also give your dad a break, he is human you know.

    Well I am going to let you have the last word! Its been fun! ;)
  7. Schlep

    Schlep Member

    Like I said, I'm not answering because it doesn't affect me and I don't care. I'd be just as happy with one as the other. You're trying to force an opinion out of me about something I have no opinion on.

    It wasn't intended to be some major insult. If you want my honest opinion on it, it felt like I was debating a child.
  8. IdRatherBeSkiing

    IdRatherBeSkiing Sherbert is not and never will be ice cream

    I do not use Apple devices at all (never have, never will). I will say that DRM is NOT transparent outside the Apple world. It is very limiting. In order to get protected content on my SL2 (in a timely manner) I am forced to remove the DRM from any DRM protected music I buy. Also as I understand it, if you lose your computer, you lose the DRM and need to re-download it. You are also allowed to only do this once or twice.
  9. DAB

    DAB Mod Emeritus

    You seem out of touch beyond the Apple world to me! I am sure Apple loves customers like you. Just drink the kool-aid, never question anything!

    By the way I didn't take your comments as an insult at all, but you truly do need to lighten up as clearly I was having fun and you were being so, so serious! Life is too short not to have fun! Even when I showed the smilies and the LOL you still didn't catch on.

    Anyway, enjoy your iPod!
  10. DAB

    DAB Mod Emeritus

    DRM is clearly a pain in the ass and anyone that suggest otherwise is totally out of touch. I have always stripped the DRM protection out of files I've purchased because it is easier not to have to deal with that crap. Apple could easily push this with the labels, but the fact is this also protects their business model of keeping folks locked in with them. Most users are going to just use iTunes because it is there, they don't want to have to go off looking for alternatives like Amazon.

    What gets me is that eventually they will switch to these non-DRM files, but when they do they will take credit for it as if they were the ones that pushed everyone else to do it.

    Trying to get your files if you lose them from Apple is a nightmare. But of course the best way is to make sure you always have a current backup of all your files. Users that don't back up probably should go through a nightmare to get them back.
  11. Schlep

    Schlep Member

    I've used Apple almost exclusively day to day for about 10 years now. Obviously I'm not out of touch on other devices as I've used the Zune and Zune marketplace a few times, and am trying to wrangle a Slacker G2 out of my dad for Christmas. DRM just isn't a big issue to me, because I've never been in a situation where it's affected me one way or the other.

    As far as questioning Apple, I've been quite critical on them over the years. OS X 10.0 was Apple selling its customers a $129 beta, the iPod was originally $100 overpriced, the original iPhone left out 3G at a time when it was well within their reach to include it. They're not a flawless company, but I like their products.

    I have an Applescript that backs up my home directory to an external 1TB drive once a week automatically, as well as all the files being on one of my iPods.
  12. I was looking at the deals for Black Friday. You can a Sandisk Sansa 2GB Clip MP3 player for $30 at Ritz Camera, Office Depot, etc. You can also at places like Radio Shack a Sandisk 4GB Sansa Fuze for $50. I look at these MP3 players and would rather have this than an IPOD. I got last year a Sansa Clip 1GB. With an IPOD you cant receive FM Radio unless it has WIFI and you can download a program to it. Also an IPOD does not have the feature of recording your voice. I don't feel like I should have to spend $150-200 on some nice IPOD with a color screen when I can get another for the fraction of the price.

    I had downloaded music files for free before when Pepsi used to have free I-Tunes Codes under select 20oz bottles and 7-Eleven was doing promotions with American Choppers and Musicmatch. All those ITunes and Musicmatch files are DRM. I still have the Musicmatch files downloaded on and older MP3 players and they all copyright protected. Its sad they have to do that.
  13. DAB

    DAB Mod Emeritus

    Well that explains a lot! God Bless your dad for being so generous and maybe if you are good boy he'll get you that Slacker G2. ;)
  14. Schlep

    Schlep Member

    Personally I don't care about FM, but if you have any iPod except for the Shuffle you can buy an FM adapter. I'd rather have a device that automatically syncs my podcasts and automatically organized playlists. Different tastes is why competition is good.
  15. DAB

    DAB Mod Emeritus

    There are many MP3 players rather it be one by Sony, Samsung, Creative, Archos, iRiver or even MS. Many of those have build in FM, no add on necessary. If you use the right programs they too can automatically organize and sync playlist. Many of them can even download podcast now and if necessary convert them. Most of them play non-DRM protected AAC files as well as half dozen or so other file types, including DRM protected. They also support Play For Sure, which means you can download unlimited music from a participating music service no such support for iPods. Many of them also support streaming internet radio and some even the ability to download stations for playback when there is no wifi connectivity all done automatically.

    Apple has a killer marketing machine whereas these guys mentioned above do not, that is the real difference in why Apple has the market share that it does. None the less it is great to have competition and a choice. Even MS with the Zune hasn't really pushed the device nearly as much as Apple has the iPod.
  16. Schlep

    Schlep Member

    If the FM tuner is that important to you, then I fully encourage you to support one of those players. What is important to me is the ability to use one program to organize everything, and an interface that is intuitive and comfortable for me.

    So do iPods/iPhones.

    That is a limitation of the iPod line. All of these devices have their pros and cons.

    Some do this, some do that. My iPhone supports streaming internet radio as well.

    Apple has an easy to use and quality experience, superior physical design to most devices, and yes, good marketing.
  17. DAB

    DAB Mod Emeritus

    By the way the topic was so off course going back so far that I've removed it from the previous thread and created one of its own.

    But this isn't to say that others wouldn't feel the same about one of these other devices. That is your choice, but clearly there are other choices for those that prefer them over an iPod.

    There is little doubt iTunes creates a simple experience for those with iPods, but there are also some they feel iTunes creates a very limited experience for those that would like a little more. iPods are certainly eye candy no doubt about it, but in side by side comparision non iPod Touch models really don't offer as many features as many other brands.
  18. Schlep

    Schlep Member

    Of course, people buy what they prefer. I buy Apple products because I prefer them to the alternatives. You seem to take issue with me feeling that their products serve my needs best.

    Totally a subjective viewpoint. People who feel limited by iTunes don't buy Apple products, so I'm not really sure what you're trying to prove to me.
  19. DAB

    DAB Mod Emeritus

    Oh Yeah! How is that?

    Not subjective at all, just go read the Apple forums for the request that are made all the time for added features and useability in iTunes.

    I am not trying to prove anything to you, this thread isn't about you, it is a discussion about various options to sat radio as I named the thread.

    What is your deal with taking everything so personal?
  20. Schlep

    Schlep Member

    Every time I give examples of why I like the iPod, you come back with reasons that I shouldn't. I respect that people pick different electronics based on what works for them. It's difficult to understand why you feel the need to change my mind on the iPod.

    Nothing is a perfect product, and people always want additional features. If there was a single product out there that could store podcasts, music, have unlimited access to music, FM radio, camera, internet, streaming radio, etc it would fly off shelves. The closest product I've seen to this is the iPhone 3G, and even it is not perfect.

    Because I say, "I like iPod because I can connect it to my car stereo, the iTunes interface is great, and the podcast management makes my life easy." You quote me and list all of these reasons why I shouldn't like the Apple products. If you're not directing the comments towards my preferences, then don't quote me.

    I take it personally because you seem to want me to acknowledge the iPod, iPhone, and iTMS as inferior products when I don't feel that they are.

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