90% Unwatchable... 10% Entertaining

9FNZ

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Oct 18, 2008
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Sadly the first 90 laps of that thing last night was about as exciting as watching paint dry. The last 10 laps were pretty exciting. But how about the 600 next week? It's gonna be a complete snooze fest, NASCAR has got to do something about this kind of racing let the teams do what they have to do to be able to race for god's sake. When we get back to "points" racing next week the only time you'll see a lead change is in the pits and you know as well as i do their will be a caution with 10-15 laps to go next week in the 600 and first car off pit road will win the race. Lowe's Motor Speedway used to produce good racing but with what i saw last night i won't be watching the 600.
 

Calypso

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Apr 29, 2009
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It's the new car, you can't pass with it... No matter who gets out front no one can catch them.. Look a few races back, Jr. sucked is car sucked he stayed out and took off from the field no one could pass him.
 

mghtx

2000 Man
Oct 23, 2008
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Look a few races back, Jr. sucked is car sucked he stayed out and took off from the field no one could pass him.

Yeah, that one incident made such a statement about the COT. Remember how it was supposed to be "back in the drivers hands"? Now it's all about the pit stops. Look what's been going on with Carl after the year he had last year.

As far as the 600 is concerned we all know that the drivers are gonna ride around until the last 40 laps or so. And more than likely it will be who can stay out and not run out of fuel.
 

dpkimmel2001

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Nov 6, 2008
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Maybe they'll take a look at last nights race and decide to throw a debris caution on lap 387 to set up a 10 lap shootout at the end. ;)
 

mghtx

2000 Man
Oct 23, 2008
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OK with this being such a long race....

How many debris cautions will there be?
How many times will digger annoy us?
How many times will the cut-away car replace race coverage?
On what lap will Jr's car start sliding to the back?

Boy if I were still a drinker I could have one heck of a party with this stuff. :p

...
 

dpkimmel2001

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Nov 6, 2008
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OK with this being such a long race....

How many debris cautions will there be?
How many times will digger annoy us?
How many times will the cut-away car replace race coverage?
On what lap will Jr's car start sliding to the back?

Boy if I were still a drinker I could have one heck of a party with this stuff. :p

...

I'll go with.....

5 debris

22+ Digger moments

2 cut-away car moments

Immediately after the first pit stop on lap 17 for the first of the 5 debris cautions.
 

semipenguin

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Oct 11, 2008
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It's the new car, you can't pass with it... No matter who gets out front no one can catch them.. Look a few races back, Jr. sucked is car sucked he stayed out and took off from the field no one could pass him.

Yeah, that one incident made such a statement about the COT. Remember how it was supposed to be "back in the drivers hands"? Now it's all about the pit stops. Look what's been going on with Carl after the year he had last year.

As far as the 600 is concerned we all know that the drivers are gonna ride around until the last 40 laps or so. And more than likely it will be who can stay out and not run out of fuel.

Yeah, about 4yrs ago, NASCAR and the media where talking about how the COT was supposed to eliminate Aero-Push. Seems to me that nothing's changed...:worried:

With the exception of safety, nothing's really changed with the COT. Racing has, for the most part, been the same, or worse, than the old car.

Seems like over time, NASCAR really screwed to pooch on this one...:right:
 

mghtx

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Oct 23, 2008
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Aero-Push.


Anybody else notice that Jimmie Johnson will crack on the COT every chance he gets. Of course he's PC about it but he still will harp on it big time. Other drivers mention it too but I really notice when Jimmie does it.

The COT may very well be worse in this repect than the old car.

The one thing I love about the COT is that the cars can take a beating and still go. So then that means we desparately need more short tracks. ;)
 

DexterMorgan

Active Member
Oct 22, 2008
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I seem to remember being on this horse last year and everyone got down my throat about it.

The COT is a disgrace. The fact that Nascar is willing to let this continue is a bigger disgrace. The shills defend this crap by saying races were always boring at these tracks. Thats a load of bull. Races at Atlanta, Texas, Charlotte, Mighigan and even Pocono were good back in the late 90's early 2000.

Nascar needs to get off their pile of money, and get testing with this car and come up with a rules package for it that allows it to run with other cars.
 

Calypso

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Apr 29, 2009
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I seem to remember being on this horse last year and everyone got down my throat about it.

The COT is a disgrace. The fact that Nascar is willing to let this continue is a bigger disgrace. The shills defend this crap by saying races were always boring at these tracks. Thats a load of bull. Races at Atlanta, Texas, Charlotte, Mighigan and even Pocono were good back in the late 90's early 2000.

Nascar needs to get off their pile of money, and get testing with this car and come up with a rules package for it that allows it to run with other cars.

:bigthumbup: This is so true, I agree completely with you on this..:ter:
 

mghtx

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Oct 23, 2008
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I seem to remember being on this horse last year and everyone got down my throat about it.

I remember Dex. I know I definitely enjoyed the racing better in the late '90's. I would love if they could go back to that car with the updated safety features of today. And not let the teams mangle the bodies up.

The COT is a disgrace. The fact that Nascar is willing to let this continue is a bigger disgrace.

Nascar is not going to acknowledge the faults of the COT. But they will talk up the safety issues (which I think could have been done to the old car). Personally I hated the look of the "twisted sister".

Nascar needs to get off their pile of money, and get testing with this car and come up with a rules package for it that allows it to run with other cars.

Nascar pushed this car forward too soon and have made the teams test it out. How long was this car in testing before last year anyway?
 

dpkimmel2001

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Nov 6, 2008
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I'll choose to be this boards minority on this topic. You can count me as a fan of the COT. I'm also a person that realizes that the teams are still gaining an understanding of the sandbox that they are now playing in. I don't see that things have changed as drastically as some of you see when you're watching these races.

Here are some numbers for you to chew on, and probably spit out. ;) I looked at the last three Charlotte 600 races from 2006, 2007, & 2008 and compared them to 1996, 1997, & 1998 and then again to 1986, 1987, & 1988. While these are just a simple, quick view of the racing there over the past 30 years, the devil is in the details. Those details can be found @ Race Results at Lowe's Motor Speedway - Racing-Reference.info If you bother to look at the actual stats from those races, you'll see the most all of the passing for the lead took place in the pits or the first lap or two after a restart. To me, that sounds a lot like the racing of today. We'd all like to think that the racing was so much better in the past but it's really not all that much different IMO.

1986
15 leaders
6 finished on the lead lap
6 cautions for 32 laps

1987
10 leaders
1 car finished on the lead lap
12 cautions for 68 laps

1988
18 leaders
6 cars finished on the lead lap
13 cautions for 89 laps

1996
8 leaders
4 finished on the lead lap
6 cautions for 35 laps

1997
12 leaders
17 finished on the lead lap
7 cautions for 50 laps
rainout at lap 333

1998
11 leaders
9 finished on the lead lap
8 cautions for 49 laps

2006
16 leaders
17 finished on the lead lap
15 cautions for 66 laps

2007
15 leaders
12 finished on the lead lap
13 cautions for 62 laps

2008
16 leaders
17 finished on the lead lap
11 cautions for 50 laps
 

mghtx

2000 Man
Oct 23, 2008
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You can count me as a fan of the COT.

Well, don't get me completely wrong....I actually LOVE the look of the COT. Although I'm still not used to seeing that wing. But the overall look and shape I like. (and I know not everybody feels this way. :eek::p )

Also I will add that what (for me) helped make the racing better in the '90's was the race coverage on TV. The personalities that were on were great.

But I really did like the racing better overall in the '80's and '90's. I tell you, if it weren't for Kyle and maybe a couple of other drivers, I wouldn't be watching much racing these days.

...
 

semipenguin

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Oct 11, 2008
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Don't get me wrong about the COT. I still think it's a good idea, but NASCAR tried selling us a bill of good and it his not lived up to it's billing.

Safety is a great thing. The drivers are safer now then ever before. It took the death of Dale Earnhardt Sr. to bring about the change need in the car, the driver, and the track.

The fact that you can do what Robby Gordon does, IMHO, is a good thing. Being able to switch from 4 manufactures in 4 years, with little amount of money spent, is remarkable.

NASCAR and the Media told us that this was going to save teams money. I don't think it has. They said it would eliminate the need for cars specifically made for specific race tracks. That has not happened. There's still a need for superspeedway cars, vs intermediate cars, vs short track cars.

NASCAR and the Media talked up the COT that is was going to be more like truck racing. That it would be less dependent on aerodynamics and more in set up and driver feed back. Well I don't know about the driver feed back, but it's still dependent on aerodynamics. Maybe much more so than the old car. Racing like the Truck series. That's what we were told. So far, it hasn't happened.

This is just the second FULL season of the COT. Instead of having the teams race both last year, they decided to go full time last season. I was hoping that over time, they would have been able to do a better job with this car. IMHO, it hasn't happened. I said give them time. But I think we've give NASCAR enough time. The teams spent millions switching over to this car, and yet the same teams are still winning every week.

Only one single car team has managed to win in this COT, and it was a Hendrick car, for the most part. Where are the Morgan Shepard's that had enthusiasm for this car. Who said it would give the smaller teams a chance to win?

Even teams like RCR and Earnhardt-Ganassi can't seem to make these cars work. Richard Petty Motorsports. Yates Racing. None of these teams have a chance to win on the weekends anymore. And that was what the COT was intended to do. To help those teams that can't afford the D&R like the HMS, or Roush-Fenway, or JGR.

Too bad. I was really hoping for more from the COT.
 

mghtx

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Oct 23, 2008
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Yeah, ditto to your whole post semi. (and I said that the no-testing thing would only help the big teams and it sure looks that way.....they already had the data)
 
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dpkimmel2001

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Nov 6, 2008
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Don't get me wrong about the COT. I still think it's a good idea, but NASCAR tried selling us a bill of good and it his not lived up to it's billing.

Safety is a great thing. The drivers are safer now then ever before. It took the death of Dale Earnhardt Sr. to bring about the change need in the car, the driver, and the track.

The fact that you can do what Robby Gordon does, IMHO, is a good thing. Being able to switch from 4 manufactures in 4 years, with little amount of money spent, is remarkable.

NASCAR and the Media told us that this was going to save teams money. I don't think it has. They said it would eliminate the need for cars specifically made for specific race tracks. That has not happened. There's still a need for superspeedway cars, vs intermediate cars, vs short track cars.

NASCAR and the Media talked up the COT that is was going to be more like truck racing. That it would be less dependent on aerodynamics and more in set up and driver feed back. Well I don't know about the driver feed back, but it's still dependent on aerodynamics. Maybe much more so than the old car. Racing like the Truck series. That's what we were told. So far, it hasn't happened.

This is just the second FULL season of the COT. Instead of having the teams race both last year, they decided to go full time last season. I was hoping that over time, they would have been able to do a better job with this car. IMHO, it hasn't happened. I said give them time. But I think we've give NASCAR enough time. The teams spent millions switching over to this car, and yet the same teams are still winning every week.

Only one single car team has managed to win in this COT, and it was a Hendrick car, for the most part. Where are the Morgan Shepard's that had enthusiasm for this car. Who said it would give the smaller teams a chance to win?

Even teams like RCR and Earnhardt-Ganassi can't seem to make these cars work. Richard Petty Motorsports. Yates Racing. None of these teams have a chance to win on the weekends anymore. And that was what the COT was intended to do. To help those teams that can't afford the D&R like the HMS, or Roush-Fenway, or JGR.

Too bad. I was really hoping for more from the COT.

They ran 16 races in 2007

They were to run 26 races in 2008. The majority of the car owners favored moving to the COT full time in 2008 and that's what happened.

So to date, one complete season with the car on a majority of the tracks. Two with the smaller tracks. It's a work in progress.

RCR did great in their first full season with the car. You can't be on top every year.

Earnhardt-Ganassi, consider the source.

Dido Richard Petty Motorsports.

Yates Racing delayed their implementation of the COT testing.

The car has only been around for a short time and will take a while to develop. No different than the old car. That was a work in progress until the day it was phased out and look where it was at. Same teams on top for the most part. Hard work and a lot of money pay off in this sport.
 

dpkimmel2001

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Nov 6, 2008
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Tell that to Rick Hendrick, Chad Knaus, and Jimmie Johnson...:p

But back to your point, RCR dropped off, and I mean hard. It's either the car, or Casey Mears. I'm guessing Casey Mears...:)

Everyone, & I mean everyone will have their highs and lows. That includes the Hendrick's & Johnson's of the NASCAR world. :eek:

Race 11 out of 26 to make the chase. Not even half way there. There's still time to make the top 12 & that's all that matters in today's NASCAR. ;)
 

BobBski

Member
Nov 30, 2008
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Buckeye Lake, Ohio
I don't have any problems with the COT and think it's doing what it was designed for, safety. There is no way to eliminate aero push...just ain't gonna happen except maybe in a vacumned track...moving traffic moves air. Aero push has always and will always exist. If you remember back to why this change in cars...aero push was not an objective...the media started talking that when it came out...not NASCAR.

Can't catch and pass the leader??? Jeff Gordon did it last night from a couple seconds back. And it's happened many times before. Yes, the car in the lead has the advantage of clean air....but, if you've got a good car the leader can be caught and passed. Listening to the 24 team for the last few years...they need/put a different setup in the car for "in traffic" if they are starting in the back.

Anywho:p Just my opinion and that won't get ya a cup of coffee anywhere.:soapbox:;) I'm gettin off it.
 

BobBski

Member
Nov 30, 2008
628
5
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Buckeye Lake, Ohio
Sadly the first 90 laps of that thing last night was about as exciting as watching paint dry. The last 10 laps were pretty exciting. But how about the 600 next week? It's gonna be a complete snooze fest, NASCAR has got to do something about this kind of racing let the teams do what they have to do to be able to race for god's sake. When we get back to "points" racing next week the only time you'll see a lead change is in the pits and you know as well as i do their will be a caution with 10-15 laps to go next week in the 600 and first car off pit road will win the race. Lowe's Motor Speedway used to produce good racing but with what i saw last night i won't be watching the 600.

Yessir, we need to go back to the good old days. Leader was the only car on the lead lap....2d place was 8 laps down. I enjoyed the race....enjoyed em back then too.