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Galaxy Nation Explore the other side of the universe. Discuss AM/FM, XM, DISH, DirecTV, HD Radio, and all mp3 players. Here you can also discuss the ins and outs of tomorrow's radio technology...where music and satellites collide. Who said it's not rocket science?!?

 
 
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Old 12-05-2004, 12:47 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default ESN Number (Possible Cloning??) *True Story*

I'm not sure what to put this under here, so if it's the wrong forum please move it. Also some information I'm leaving out to protect myself and others, but it'sa true story. I put off writing on this until the investigation was finished then debated on posting it.

A few days after I got my Sirius (I have the PNP2 and boombox) I fell asleep with it on then woke up around 4:30 AM to find the radio off and the display saying "push any button to update." So I did then it said to call Sirius about my account as it's been suspended and it gave their number. Also all the numbers were erased from my memory.

I called and let me say caling around 5AM is the best time as the reps pick right up! No holding.

I called, gave my information, cleared who I was, told the problem. And she said that a lightening strike may of hit my antenna. I said "nope, none in my area." Then she said it may of been I plugged the radio in without having it turned off. I said nope I fell asleep with it on. So she looked more then said that I called twice in the night. Once to have the radio discontinued as I was not happy with Sirius. Then not even 5 minutes later that the problem was fixed and it was turned back on. And that someone called and had all of my information to verify it was me (account number, credit card, etc.)

Well this got me going as not only did I not call, but nobody has my information but I don't use a cordless phone (I personally know too many ways to listen in on any of them and if I can anyone can if they know what they're doing).

So the rep took the information and said someone would call me back later in the day. A supervisor did and one of the things they thought of was that in theory a ESN number may be cloned as mine and either a rep turned it off. Other theories included that a rep did not do their job and got into the wrong account, someone hacked into my computer while I was online and got into my account and got the information, someone overheard my conversations with sirius on the phone and a few more that I won't post due to security.

Well first off, what many do not know is that whenever you dial a toll-free number, while the call is free to you, the people who pay the bill (who you dial) get a copy of the bill each month along with the numbers who called...including exact times and dates. So they had access to the exact time and date. And some calls are recorded at random for quality service.

Well in the end I was very happy with Sirius. They made changes to my account, sent me new equiptment and gave me a credit. It was not someone who got into my account. And they "severly doubt" it was a cloned or ESN that is doubled (but they're going to look further). What I will say (and I'm happy about) is that Sirius takes fraud very seriously and will prosecute anyone doing so through them to one of their customers.

Has anything like this ever happened to anyone else? And is it possible to clone a ESN number or am I offbase?
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Old 12-05-2004, 01:04 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quite scary fox.

My guess is that a rep f-ed up and got into the wrong account.

Cloning an ESN is probably possible. But the communication from sirius to your radio is one-way and if someone cloned your ESN it would not cause your radio to quit working. Whoever cloned your radio would have to call Sirius and have them discontinue service and then call back to reactivate. This would cause an activation signal to be sent to your ESN and both radios would then work.

Yeah, 800 numbers get data about callers that cannot be turned off with callerID blocking.

I dont' see what someone would have been able to do by stealing your sirius subscription info unless they called and had your sub transferred to a new ESN. That would cause your radio to stop working.
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Old 12-05-2004, 01:14 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dantodd
Quite scary fox.

My guess is that a rep f-ed up and got into the wrong account.

Cloning an ESN is probably possible. But the communication from sirius to your radio is one-way and if someone cloned your ESN it would not cause your radio to quit working. Whoever cloned your radio would have to call Sirius and have them discontinue service and then call back to reactivate. This would cause an activation signal to be sent to your ESN and both radios would then work.

Yeah, 800 numbers get data about callers that cannot be turned off with callerID blocking.

I dont' see what someone would have been able to do by stealing your sirius subscription info unless they called and had your sub transferred to a new ESN. That would cause your radio to stop working.
Dan,

Yes, I agree that a rep did something wrong.

However, what I was told is that my radio WAS turned off then turned back on (said I called twice) but I had to call as I wrote previously. However I never called and they said they had no phone records.

But how could someone get an ESN number unless they had access to my radio? Before it was purchased? Sitting in the store? And how would they know who purchased it and all the information?

Real strange stuff but as I said Sirius was real helpful.
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Old 12-05-2004, 04:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
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First, the ESN is laser etched into ROM on the chipset, it's not clonable.

Second, if someone got your personal information, the least likely thing they are going to do is turn off your SIRIUS Radio.

Now, I think it's possible that a rep acidentially turned off the wrong radio, then turned around and turned it back on.

But there is no way to clone the ESN.
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Old 12-05-2004, 04:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
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It's nice to hear that CS was helpful. It seems like all the posts about Sirius customer service lately have been about them dragging their feet on issues that were their fault in the first place (mainly billing issues).
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Old 12-05-2004, 04:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by de
It's nice to hear that CS was helpful. It seems like all the posts about Sirius customer service lately have been about them dragging their feet on issues that were their fault in the first place (mainly billing issues).
... Well, we rarely hear about the thousands of calls each day resolved without issue ...
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Old 12-05-2004, 05:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy
First, the ESN is laser etched into ROM on the chipset, it's not clonable.

Second, if someone got your personal information, the least likely thing they are going to do is turn off your SIRIUS Radio.

Now, I think it's possible that a rep acidentially turned off the wrong radio, then turned around and turned it back on.

But there is no way to clone the ESN.
Right. But then why when I called the first time on the radio did the rep say that I called twice (to turn it on then off?)? Her words were "according to the codes" I called. But in the end they said it was a problem on their end and requested the receiver be replaced (overnighted one and the old one given to courrier).
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Old 12-05-2004, 05:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxcraft
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy
First, the ESN is laser etched into ROM on the chipset, it's not clonable.

Second, if someone got your personal information, the least likely thing they are going to do is turn off your SIRIUS Radio.

Now, I think it's possible that a rep acidentially turned off the wrong radio, then turned around and turned it back on.

But there is no way to clone the ESN.
Right. But then why when I called the first time on the radio did the rep say that I called twice (to turn it on then off?)? Her words were "according to the codes" I called. But in the end they said it was a problem on their end and requested the receiver be replaced (overnighted one and the old one given to courrier).
I doubt it is anything beyond just a simple human mistake.

Like I said, the ESN is not clonable.
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Old 12-05-2004, 05:19 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Where did you get the radio in the first place? Was it used, or a out of box radio from a store?
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Old 12-05-2004, 09:58 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Was purchased new in plastic box from a popular reputable online merchant.
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Old 12-06-2004, 04:04 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Foxcraft wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
First, the ESN is laser etched into ROM on the chipset, it's not clonable.

Second, if someone got your personal information, the least likely thing they are going to do is turn off your SIRIUS Radio.

Now, I think it's possible that a rep acidentially turned off the wrong radio, then turned around and turned it back on.

But there is no way to clone the ESN.


Right. But then why when I called the first time on the radio did the rep say that I called twice (to turn it on then off?)? Her words were "according to the codes" I called. But in the end they said it was a problem on their end and requested the receiver be replaced (overnighted one and the old one given to courrier).


I doubt it is anything beyond just a simple human mistake.

Like I said, the ESN is not clonable.
im not trying to start a fight but i bet you a dollar the esn could deinfately be cloned. say for instance you swapped the rom out for an eeprom then programmed it to whatever esn you wanted. im only saying this because xbox's have a similar serial nimber bunred into a chip (an eeprom thought not a rom) which can be changed if you get banned from xbox live. now obviously this isnt supposed to be able to be done but it can be.
just a thought
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Old 01-02-2005, 12:15 AM   #12 (permalink)
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[quote="bendog2784"]
Quote:
Foxcraft wrote:
Jeremy wrote:
First, the ESN is laser etched into ROM on the chipset, it's not clonable.
I am not so sure it is laser etched, that would have to be done at the actual chip manufacuring facility and would not be precise enough to keep the .03 micron safeguards in place. There is not a cheap or effective way to remove debris during the process and usually takes hours to etch a single chip. When you etch a rom it is usually ONLY for military applications, and the cost is absolutely prohibitive. So every chip in every receiver would have to come from exactly the same place, which the "receiver" does but that makes designing so may different boards difficult from an EE standpoint when you have several chips and widgets that have to be here in order to work. I know it is feesable but in my 10 years I have only seen the "laser" ROM at the highest levels of encryption (military communications) situations where they had to be hardened against multiple miles of EMP protection. Even then in massproduction it would be (my estimate) 14 grand a chip, since the failure rate is horribly high. Now the XboX uses something similar in concept to the laser etch, where the eeprom is sealed and the WP pin is connected to the vcc (this is not a tutorial on how to do this it is for educational reasons only) Basically you short out the write feature and unless you have the chip schematic and programming instructions good luck! That is why they sell different chips instaed of using the ones in the box.

I'm not saying it's not possible, because I am certian it is. But you will have to figure it out on your own! I have not done this nor do I ever plan to. It's not my job anymore!
Here is another possibility http://www.pmc-ciphers.com/downloads...cations_en.pdf
Cipher chips are cheap and tiny, you could easaly "adjustt" smartcard layers for a tradition chip application, here's the catch, it can not be re-programed after it has been done once (according to thier method) But a blank chip, no worries. . . 10 minn on the bench and you have a "Backup" receiver. LOL I am going to get kicked now . . . . But really this would take somone with YEARS of knowledge and access to specialized equipment. Damn see now I'm staring at my PNP going over how to do this! HA HA HA, I don't even want to try for fear of the black helicopters of Sirius comming in the middle of the night, working in the sub-basement of Rocafeller Center cloning XM so Sirius can take over MUHAAAAAAA!!!!

Enjoy! I'm going to bed. . .

Matt

Sorry for the typo's I am very tired tonight.
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